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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263143 by bainin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:16 pm

The tension setting looks like 0 tension to me. Which means it is loose.

For the 1/4 " blade you've shown..you want to turn the screw in until the red plate visible bottom aligns with the 1/4" mark...i've tried to draw this on your image.

setting.jpg
setting.jpg (45.79 KiB) Viewed 3287 times



The tires look like the old black rubber type- which normally comes with an adhesive to stick them on to the wheel. Shown here.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... awtire.htm

You shouldn't be able to slip the tire around on the wheel...it should be stuck to the wheel with the adhesive.

Based on the nicks/cracks...I would replace the tires. Now you have a choice- the old black rubber style+adhesive like you currently have, or the red urethane tires.



b

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263144 by wa2crk » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:30 pm

Here is my 2 cents.
There should NOT be a groove or a low spot in the tires. If there are "grooves" in the tires they probably got there by leaving the bandsaw blade in the tensioned position during long term storage.
Because of the groove in the tires and the cracks I would change the tires. Personal opinion only.
The tire in pic D2 shows how the tire should ride on the wheel.
The spine of blade should ride in the groove of the dual bearing mounted to the frame near the tension mechanism.
The rubber tires (which I prefer) should be glued to the wheel.
The rubber smell that you smelled was probably caused by the tires slipping on the wheel because the tires were not glued to the wheels
The spine of the blade should be in contact with the bearing under the table and ride in the groove of the bearings near the adjustment scale. The backup bearing on top of the table at the rear of the blade should clear the spine of the blade by about the thickness of a business card.
When the blade guard is raised the clearance from the spine of the blade and the bearing on the guide post should be the same at the top and bottom of the travel. If the clearances are very close to the same leave them alone. If they are far off the clearance is adjustable but if you do not have the bandsaw manual do not attempt to make the adjustment. I found this adjustment to be very tedious at best and also time consuming.
The tension scale should be adjusted so that the left side of the red bar should cross behind the 1/4 mark when a 1/4 inch blade is installed.
If everything is adjusted properly the spine of a 1/2" blade or a 1/4" blade will ride at the same spot on the upper wheel.
Hope this diatribe helps.
Bill V

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263145 by GoNavy » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:11 pm

djscruggs wrote:I now have photos and with luck, I can insert them here.

There are several suggestions that seem right on so far. First, since the bandsaw was stored unused for quite a while, I suspect you are right that it was stored under tension. Here is a picture of the current tension setting (E) , as well as a measurement of the blade that was on it (F)

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David


Actually it shows the opposite, it shows zero tension, actually less then zero. It was as I suspected stored correctly with no tension as most SS owners would do. Because you ran it with no tension, the belt behaved as you reported...coming off the wheels etc...to adjust you use the allen wrench to move the red part to intersect the blade width mark. I don't think your tires are that bad, but I do think your blade needs to be replaced. with the proper adjustment and a new blade, I believe you would be fine

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263148 by JPG » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:31 pm

I agree that the PO likely had the tension relieved for storage.

Your "E" picture does indeed show no tension, but it also shows no blade mounted.

The tension can only be adjusted/checked with the blade mounted.

Lastly the marks on the scale for the different size blades are to indicate when the red bar spring is deflected sufficient for a given size blade. The left(in thy pix) edge of the bar is what indicates tension. i.e. the red bar just disappears under the scale at a mark for a given blade size. Gonavy's pix shows the tension somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4. Bainin's pix is correct, but possibly misleading. The red mark in his pix is meant to show where the red bar spring SHOULD be for 1/4" blade tension.

YES running with insufficient tension WILL produce the scenario you initially described.

I would add some adhesive where the belt is skooched away from the rear edge rim.

Now about the 'groove' in the wheel. Yes both edges have a raised rim, but the front edge rim is much much shallower.(yeah I went and looked(it ain't flat across :o ).

So remount the blade, set the tension, manually rotate the lower wheel and see if the blade then tracks correctly. Do that with the backup bearing(above the table) fully retracted from the blade.

Over

P.S. The red bar spring left edge should just disappear under the bottom end of the scale. Your "E" pix shows the red bar edge away from the end with NO tension. There is a screw near the top of the 'scale' that allows adjusting for zero tension calibration.

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263168 by djscruggs » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:08 pm

Fantastic. Best news is that we know what got me into this situation.
The Bandsaw was properly stored with Zero tension on the blade.
Operating the saw with no tension, explains two things: the smell of hot rubber, AND the blade jumping and making contact with the round table insert.

The tires (fmly known as belts) are older and have no adhesive. Will definitely replace the bottom tire (with nicks in it) and maybe the upper tire. After reading bad reviews on the newer style tire, I think I will stay with the rubber plus adhesive.

I will not yet replace the blade until I have some reason to. I AM curious when to know that a blade needs to be replaced. I have several blades available. This 1/4 " blade is round and smooth, no kinks. I have another blade that, when laid out in its full round shape, has a slight crease in it at one point that goes across the 1/4 inch width of the blade. I'm wondering if that renders it "damaged"?



Thanks for the help.

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263170 by wa2crk » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:05 pm

Sometimes the kink will straighten out when the blade is tensioned. I use my bandsaw a lot and I also use a blade past its really useful life. It should only take light pressure against the stock yo move it through the blade. If you have to push hard the blade is probably dull. You will be amazed at the difference between a new blade and a worn or dull blade.
Bill V
If you are going change the tire I would suggesting changing both. Once and done.

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263174 by beeg » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:51 pm

djscruggs wrote:The tires (fmly known as belts) are older and have no adhesive. Will definitely replace the bottom tire (with nicks in it) and maybe the upper tire. After reading bad reviews on the newer style tire, I think I will stay with the rubber plus adhesive.


Give these a try. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-2-BLUE- ... xyUrZSzAz2

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SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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Bob

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263183 by jsburger » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:50 pm

wa2crk wrote:Sometimes the kink will straighten out when the blade is tensioned. I use my bandsaw a lot and I also use a blade past its really useful life. It should only take light pressure against the stock yo move it through the blade. If you have to push hard the blade is probably dull. You will be amazed at the difference between a new blade and a worn or dull blade.
Bill V
If you are going change the tire I would suggesting changing both. Once and done.


It is hard to tell when to replace the blade. You get used ti the increased pressure needed over the years.

This reminds me of a story Mike Young told at one of the SS Traveling Academies that SS revived a few years ago. Sadly they didn't last apparently. For those of you that don't know, Mike Young is a LONG time SS demonstrator. I have seen his demos and talked to him many times over the years.

Anyhow, he cuts small flowers and cabriolet legs free hand out of 2"X2" pine as a demo on the band saw. He had been using the same blade for years. For some reason he decided to change blades to a new one. He couldn't believe the difference.

He kept the old blade and at the Academy he put the old blade and a new blade on the band saw and let the attendees use both. The difference was really amazing.

So how do you know when to change blades? I have no Idea, but if you use the band saw a lot particularly with hard wood I would just change the blade every year or two.

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John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263190 by djscruggs » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:38 pm

am taking your advice....replacing both tires!

d

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263194 by chapmanruss » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:12 pm

Here is my 2 cents worth...

Change both tires together. Although the one tire may look better than the other they were most likely replaced at the same time or are the original tires. Rubber Tires require adhesive to attach them whereas the Urethane Tires fit over the wheel somewhat like a rubber band.

Beeg has recommended, twice now, the tires from bandsaw-tire-warehouse on eBay. These are Blue Max Urethane tires which do not require adhesive. I have tried the Blue Max tires and found them to be slightly wider than the Wheels causing a slight crown when pushed in to fit on the wheel which is not desirable. Maybe I received a "bad" set and others are okay. It is up to you which tire type and brand to use.

This would also be a good time to check the guide bearings.

Do you have a manual for the Bandsaw? If not a digital version is available from Shopsmith at this link https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manuals/845539.pdf
This is for the current Bandsaw with the aluminum table and current upgrades but the internal parts and operation are the same.

You may find the following interesting too
FAQ's https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/bandsaw.htm
Cleaning https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/servicetips/cleanbandsaw.htm
.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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