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Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263098 by djscruggs » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:30 pm

As a new owner of an old Mark V 500, I've been enjoying using the machine to build my basement workshop....and have slowly and cautiously been educating myself on the many accessories that came with it.

Today, I fired up the Bandsaw for the first time. Visually, the band saw looks to be in pristine shape, though I know this sat for years unused in the fellow's garage who i bought it from. Before flipping the switch, I checked alignment of the blade on the outside and also checked the belts for visual age.

Finally, I turned the machine on "D" level and cranked it down a bit. It ran for 1 minute, I made a few relief cuts, but then I smelled hot rubber.

I turned the machine off and checked the belts inside. I noticed that the belts were riding, not exactly in the grooves of both belts, but rather, the belts were slowly working their way up the back side of the grove, just a little. With my finger, I nudged them down fully into the groove while manually turning the wheel they were mounted on. That is the only correction I made.

Put the panel back on, and fired it up again. This time, I heard a pop then scraping noise almost immediately, then POW, the blade knicked the round insert on the table.

When I opened the panel, the top belt had come completely off its wheel (correct nomentclature?) along with the saw blade.

You can probably tell that I'm not very mechanically inclined....but I would love to hear some guesses as to what I didn't do BEFORE turning it on that might have been a mistake, why it might have done what it did, and further, what I should do now!

Be gentle....I'm already feeling inexperienced and stupid.

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263105 by JPG » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:53 pm

For starters there should NOT be a groove in the rubber tires on the wheels.

Second, the SS bandsaw differs from most other bandsaws. The belt ALWAYS tracks near the back(inner) edge of the wheel.

Now this assumes someone has not done something to change 1 and/or 2.

So I think we need to see some pictures of what you have.

P.S. the belt(tire) should NOT come off the wheel that easily.

Proceed with caution until we better understand what is occurring.

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263107 by bainin » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:17 pm

Yea- I think there is some definition clarity needed.


1. Wheel- hard metal circle
2. Tires - generally 2 types available from SS. These mount first onto the wheel with some adhesive.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... awtire.htm

There's the black material, and the "red" urethane tires . The urethane are the newer version and theres a lot of feedback that they can come off the wheel.

3. Band - The actual blade itself

If the tires are moving, I'm guessing you have the urethane tires that people complain about in the reviews on this page.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/rev ... ews/522458


Certainly the tires should not be walking or drifting on the wheels and may need to be replaced or at least re-adhered to the wheel itself. If they did spin off the wheel and got mixed up in the case with the blade-you need to do a close inspection of them to check for damage. Any nicks/scrapes and you should just replace them.


If its the band blade that is drifting and not the tires, then its a matter of adjusting the bearings/tension/position of the blade as shown in the manuals. Or perhaps a new blade as well.


b



p.s I learned how to replace my tires after I accidentally turned the bandsaw on at 3450RPM rather than the recommended 900RPM hehe. Boy that was quite a racket !

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263111 by garys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:16 pm

That is a classic example of worn out tires. They dry out, the glue loosens, and then the tire stretches and comes off the wheel. I would start with new tires, possibly urethane.

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263112 by beeg » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:18 pm

[quote="djscruggs"] I noticed that the belts were riding, not exactly in the grooves of both belts, but rather, the belts were slowly working their way up the back side of the grove, just a little. With my finger, I nudged them down fully into the groove while manually turning the wheel they were mounted on. That is the only correction I made.

Put the panel back on, and fired it up again. This time, I heard a pop then scraping noise almost immediately, then POW, the blade knicked the round insert on the table.

When I opened the panel, the top belt had come completely off its wheel (correct nomentclature?) along with the saw blade. /quote]


Shouldn't have any groves in the BS tires. Try a new pair from here.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Band-Saw-ti ... 224/about/

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SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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.

Bob

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263119 by djscruggs » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:08 pm

Thanks for the initial responses. I do appreciate some basic clarification of terms.

I will take some photos and try to be more descriptive.

When I said the there were grooves in the belt, I meant that the wheel track (where the belt fits) is concave shaped. I was referencing the concave shape as the "groove" in the wheel. The belt was running up slightly to the top of the side of the groove instead of sitting down nicely into the groove of the wheel.

Someone referenced that there should be "adhesive". I see no evidence of adhesive at all. But the belt appears to my eye to be pretty sturdy....not worn or experiencing dry rot, at least. I did see a few small nicks in the lower belt, the one that did not come off.

Photos and better description to follow after I've had a chance to read the manual and reflect on some of your comments already!

DAvid

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263121 by beeg » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:01 am

What color are your tires? (Which I think you've been calling them "belt"). IF they are black, yes they should be glued on, with contact cement.

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SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
.
.

Bob

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263128 by JPG » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:40 am

djscruggs wrote:Thanks for the initial responses. I do appreciate some basic clarification of terms.

I will take some photos and try to be more descriptive.

When I said the there were grooves in the belt, I meant that the wheel track (where the belt fits) is concave shaped. I was referencing the concave shape as the "groove" in the wheel. The belt was running up slightly to the top of the side of the groove instead of sitting down nicely into the groove of the wheel.

Someone referenced that there should be "adhesive". I see no evidence of adhesive at all. But the belt appears to my eye to be pretty sturdy....not worn or experiencing dry rot, at least. I did see a few small nicks in the lower belt, the one that did not come off.

Photos and better description to follow after I've had a chance to read the manual and reflect on some of your comments already!

DAvid


Both wheels are NOT concave.

The wheels have a raised rim on the back (inner) edge. The 'face' of the rim is flat but IS tapered(outer edge od is slightly smaller than the inner od prior to the raised rim).

Proper blade tracking is about 1/4" away from the back edge(both wheels).

P.S. the tire should be thick enough to be above the raised rim.

---

╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263131 by GoNavy » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:51 am

First thing I would do is buy a new bandsaw blade, if it has been mounted for a long time under tension...it is toast. The second thing to do is see if you do have the correct tension. Being a newbie I assume you know nothing, not talking down to you, just checking. when you pull the cover (new covers avail with a view window, much better) to be able to see the tensioner. It will be below the top wheel on the left side. This needs to be set to the width of the blade being used 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 etc...you do this by using your allen wrench and moving the red part of the tensioner to line up to the numbered part corresponding to you blade width. Without the correct tension, or no tension (probably what it was set at for extended non-use) no way is that blade going to stay on. If the previous owner was any kind of SS owner, he would not have left that blade on under tension, if you just turned it on with a loose blade, no telling what that blade is gonna do.

Edit to add pic:
bandsaw tension.jpg
bandsaw tension.jpg (6.83 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

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Re: Bandsaw trouble shooting

#263142 by djscruggs » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:42 pm

I now have photos and with luck, I can insert them here.

There are several suggestions that seem right on so far. First, since the bandsaw was stored unused for quite a while, I suspect you are right that it was stored under tension. Here is a picture of the current tension setting (E) , as well as a measurement of the blade that was on it (F)

bandsaw E.jpg
bandsaw E.jpg (78.71 KiB) Viewed 2944 times
.

bandsaw E.jpg
bandsaw E.jpg (78.71 KiB) Viewed 2944 times


When I checked both belts, there was no sign of any "adhesive", and I was able to nudge the belt from side to side. After my first test run of the bandsaw, I smelled faint hot rubber, so I shut the machine off and opened it up. Everything looked right, but I noticed that both belts were working their way up the back side of the groove in the wheel. Note in photo D1, you can only see one side of the wheel because the belt is covering the right side.
bandsaw D1.jpg
bandsaw D1.jpg (40.61 KiB) Viewed 2944 times


Then in D2, you can see both side of the wheel because I pushed the belt back down in the groove slightly:
bandsaw D2.jpg
bandsaw D2.jpg (44.97 KiB) Viewed 2944 times


Lastly, though the belt that came off the upper wheel appears to be in good shape, the belt on the lower wheel has a number of cracks and small tears on it. (See G)
InkedBAndsaw G_LI.jpg
InkedBAndsaw G_LI.jpg (21.13 KiB) Viewed 2944 times



Would love to hear your analysis.
Replace both belts? Ensuring use of adhesive....
How to know when a blade needs to be replaced?

Anything else I need to check?

Thanks!

David

Attachments

band F.jpg
band F.jpg (71.46 KiB) Viewed 2944 times

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