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14 posts 1 2

floating table inserts for V 500

#262247 by djscruggs » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:09 am

I'm a new SS owner having bought an old 500 machine with a handfull of incredible accessories. This forum has been fantastic at walking me through dust collection and workshop setup, and I"ve basically been building my space.

At this point, my only disappointment is in the size of the tiny table saw table....an obvious complaint given that the 510 dramatically fixed that.

When I look at the option to upgrade to the 510, the ONLY real payoff to me is the table size. The package includes "floating inserts" for the table saw table.
1) Is it possible to just purchase an insert?
2) Are there other workarounds to give me a little more width?
3) Finally, I have a small extension to the table that inserts into the holes on the far right side. However, I"ve noticed that, though there is a "channel" for the rip fence to go into this extension, the fence does NOT slide readily from the table to the extension...its seems the channel on the extension is made differently from the table.

I've learned ago that most "newbie" problems have more to do with newbie education than they do with the tools themselves. Would love either some direction OR perhaps this is already addressed somewhere on the Woodsmith website (I looked, but just couldn't find!)

David

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262250 by br549 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:47 am

In answer to your specific questions:
1.) The floating tables for a 505/510/520/Mark 7 table system can be purchased separately, but they "float" on rails which a 500 main table does not have. And due to table size differences, the 500 table cannot be modified to accommodate the rails. The newer table systems also use different fences.
2.)You say you have an extension table. This is the easiest way to get extra width.
There are two sizes for the extension tables ... the original is about 4" wide, the larger version is about twice that wide. Both versions use the same mounting posts. Shopsmith or eBay are a good source for the wider extension table (with or without the supporting posts). Others users have mounted two main carriages and tables side by side for extra table surface area. While this will limit other functions, if your main use is as a table saw, that might work for you. The second carriage could be left installed but the table removed to give more flexibility for other functions. I am unaware of any other workarounds, but I'm sure there have been others, including adding custom wood tables on top of the existing aluminum table.
3.)There are different style front rails for 500 tables and extension tables ... some are integral to the table and some are bolted on. You may have a mixture of the two styles. Where the main table and extension meet is tricky to get the fence to transition smoothly. The extension table can be adjusted to better align by loosing the 4 bolts that hold it to its posts. A wider extension table can help in that it gives more surface area. An auxillary face can be added to the fence to allow positioning the fence further away from the joint between the two tables, while achieving certain rip widths in that range between mounting the fence on the main table and mounting fence on the extension table. Attached is a picture of an auxillary fence face I use. This is my second version, with slot added for feather boards. This only gives 3/4" of additional offset, but a thicker face could give more ability to "span the gap" between the 2 tables.
Aux fence with feather board.JPG
Aux fence with feather board.JPG (125.75 KiB) Viewed 2072 times

Also, earlier Mark V tables had a second saw slot to the left of the main slot, which gave greater rip capacity while the fence was mounted to the table. I think this second slot was meant for smaller diameter blades, but still might be an option for you. This second slot was eliminated due to concerns that it weakened the main table, and a second slot should not be simply cut into a main table. This second slot also left the blade unprotected above and below the table with no saw guards, and also had no capability for dust collection.

Finally, any pictures that you could post would go a long way in helping to provide suggestions and advice ... and besides, we love pictures!

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262251 by chapmanruss » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:56 am

In br549's post he referenced the main table with the second blade slot
Also, earlier Mark V tables had a second saw slot to the left of the main slot, which gave greater rip capacity while the fence was mounted to the table. I think this second slot was meant for smaller diameter blades, but still might be an option for you. This second slot was eliminated due to concerns that it weakened the main table, and a second slot should not be simply cut into a main table. This second slot also left the blade unprotected above and below the table with no saw guards, and also had no capability for dust collection.
The last sentence is not totally correct. The extra slot was added to the Mark 5 in 1960 after it was introduced as a feature on the Mark 2. It was discontinued in 1980. The Upper and Lower Saw Blade Guard Assembly part numbers 505627 & 505628 used during most of that time period mounts independently of the table and on the quill so it can be used for either slot on the table. This has a port for dust collection. The Saw Blade Guard assembly prior to this one has a square dust chute so no dust collection. The next Saw Blade Guard system came out after the elimination of the second saw blade slot and the Upper Guard attaches to the Table Post, so it cannot cover the second blade slot of the earlier table.

If you choose to make a table addition by covering the main table with a larger wood top you will lose cutting capacity equal to the thickness of the wood. In most cases this would not be a problem. You will also reduce where you can position the fence with a cover top in place. Before making changes try cutting some panels to width. Remember the Mark 5 (pre 1980) or Mark V with the original table system aka 500 has a 48" capacity. Just make sure you have any help you need to feed and hold the out-feed when cutting to do it safely. You may find that you can do cuts without additional tables. If you need to cut stock longer than 48", while using the fence, than an upgrade to the 510 or 520 Table/Fence system may be for you.
.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262259 by JPG » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:37 pm

The thing to remember is the Mark 5 was a 9" saw.

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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262265 by garys » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:16 pm

But, since I don't have any 9" blades I always use 10" ones.

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262270 by JPG » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:19 pm

garys wrote:But, since I don't have any 9" blades I always use 10" ones.


Not a problem unless thee lowers the table too far when a 10" blade is in the 'second' slot. That second slot was intended to be used with a 9" blade. The 10" blades came about with the Mark VII.

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262289 by chapmanruss » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:33 pm

JPG,

I have to ask for clarification purposes. Is the second slot in the "Goldies" table shorter than the main insert slot? Does it only take a 9" blade as was the standard for "Greenies" and "Goldies"? I know the slot in the table insert was longer to allow the splitter for the original Mark 5 upper guard to go through it. I have 2 Saw Blade Table inserts for the original Table System (500) but do not know when they were made and they both have a 10 1/2" opening. I have had only one "Goldie" that was made in October 1960 which I restored and sold. I didn't think to measure the table slots while I had it. The 10" blades became standard during the time Magna American was making the Shopsmith tools. As you said the Mark VII came out with a 10" blade and it's lower guard P/N 505705 has that capacity.

This is of course to satisfy my own curiosity. The original poster didn't say what Mark 5/V he has only that it is an old 500.

So David as you move forward with any restorations, repairs or additions to your Shopsmith remember it can make a difference in what you need to get to do a repair or upgrade depending on when your Shopsmith was made, be it a "Greenie" (1954-1960), "Goldie" (1960-1963) or Gray (1963 to end of Mark V 500 production).
.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262290 by JPG » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:44 pm

That 'little' voice that reminds me of stupid things I have done due to insufficient attention paid to what I am doing says:

'Remember the day you used a 10" blade in the second slot?' :rolleyes:

'Remember what happened as the table was lowered almost all the way?' :D


I do;


The blade 'displaced' some material from the bottom of the table. :(

Kinda noisy also. :)

So 10" "OK" just do not go too deep.



P.S. IIRC the 10"blade came with the M VII only and NOT the Mark 5.

SS Inc. changed to 10" I assume with the removal of the second slot.

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262297 by reible » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:46 pm

My factory new 1976 had the two table slots and the 10" blade. I still have the table but it is in storage so I can't go look at it but I know I used the second slot and the 10" blade but how deep a cut I took with it that way I don't know. I don't recall a warning associated with using the second slot and the 10" blade either.

Somewhere I have the bulletin when shopsmith change the table, maybe 1980 ish. I know I have a couple of early 1980's without the second slot. Anyway the mention was an issue of needing a new casting which was done san the second slot.

Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: floating table inserts for V 500

#262299 by benush26 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Sorry to come to this late, but I thought I remembered something by Bill Mayo that involved adding a small attachment bar to the ends of the table (along the bottom edge I think), which allows another set of rectangular bars to extend out. Though I think the sole purpose was to have a place for the miter gauge to set, sort of like an outrigger. Not sure how the ends were supported to handle any weight, but I think there was another piece, front to back so the miter gauge could be clamped.
I would have tried a search, but Bill had so many helpful posts that it would take me months.

Not sure if that will help for what you want to accomplish, but it may be a place to start.

Be well,
Ben

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