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11 posts 1 2

5/8 arbor and a Melamine Blade

#3838 by tenbears » Wed May 23, 2007 4:29 pm

I'm looking for suggestions on the sucess or lack of using the 5/8" saw arbor with a standard 5/8 arbor 10" table saw melamine blade + vibration dampners

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#3845 by james.miller » Wed May 23, 2007 10:45 pm

The 5/8 saw blade arbor cant use blade stabilizers. You would have to use the dado/molder arbor which I don't think is recommended for saw blades.

Jim in Tucson

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#3854 by reible » Thu May 24, 2007 4:39 pm

Hi,

IMO the better blades do not need any extra stablizers.... I know they sell them and I have a pair from way back when. They have been in the drawer for the last 12-15 years or so. I simply could not tell the difference between the cuts with and without them on the newer better quality blades.

I have never gone the Forrest route but I know a lot of shopsmith people seem to love them. I have used Freud (red) with good luck and that has been my blade of choise until the last couple of years.

I now like the blades by infinity. In your case you might want to check out:
http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1198

I'm on their mailing list and just saw an offer for free postage for purchases over $50 until Memorial Day... not sure if that is for anyone or only for people on the mailing list.

I have also gotten router bits from them and they are also high quality bits in my book.

Ed

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#3866 by paulmcohen » Fri May 25, 2007 2:35 am

I use the Infinity Detonator Dado blade and while expensive is the best blade I have ever used.

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5/8 arbor and a Melamine Blade

#3877 by tenbears » Fri May 25, 2007 3:36 pm

Ed: are you using the Dado arbor or the standard 5/8 arbor, and are you tapeing the cutline or does the Infinity blade cut clean enough without ugly chipout. I've tried the standard SS carbide combination blade and the chipout on Melamine is unacceptable.

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#3879 by reible » Fri May 25, 2007 4:37 pm

Hi,

I use the Shopsmith standard 5/8" saw arbor, and my shopsmith has been upgraded to the two bearing quill.

As far as cutting clean I guess other factors come into play, like when the blade is new it is sharper, the condition of your saw (alignment and how well the other mechanical parts are to spec) and even things like the grade of material used.

My feelings/guess is that you will find you do not need to tape but I can not tell you for sure (lets say I'm 90% sure). If you read the information on the web site they talk about how the edges are cut because of the angles of the saw teeth and that is what happens, this translates in to very nice clean edges for me and I like the blade better then the red model I use to use. I know it the best I've owned.

I have also been told that H.O. Schumacher + Sohn makes a blade for about the same cost that also does a great job. I have yet to purchase any of their blades so this is only what I've been told and I have never seen the cuts made by them.

I haven't looked at this in a while but I think all the blades in this class have about the same specs and if you look at the specs you will see they are different then a standard crosscut or combo blade. They are designed for this type of cutting and do a much better jobat it. Any of the three or so brands I've mentioned will be a major improvement over a standard combo blade.

Ed

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#3882 by charlese » Fri May 25, 2007 10:16 pm

With all due respect to all the users of 5/8" arbor blades, I have to throw this in. I used a SS 1/8" kerf carbide combo blade for years. (literally!) Touched it up a few times with a diamond hone. Still makes GREAT crosscuts. Finally I sprung for a new 1/8" combo and the three SS narrow kerf blades. (Cross cut, Rip and Combo). At first didn't see or feel much difference between all four new blades. However,now I find myself almost totally using the narrow kerf blades, and switch blades frequently according to purpose. Still can't tell any difference in quality of cut, but the narrow kerf must sound better or feel better somehow as I prefer their use.

Moral: When you find what you like - use it!

---

Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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5/8 arbor and a Melamine Blade

#3885 by tenbears » Sat May 26, 2007 12:17 am

I have great luck cutting with the carbide SS combo blade until it comes to cutting melamine, then chipout city. I've tried tapeing the cutline but still not an acceptable cut. Not a reflection of the SS combo blade as I doubt that anyone's combo blades would render any different result.

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#3886 by james.miller » Sat May 26, 2007 12:26 am

More thoughts on cutting melamine. Both freud and Forrest make very expensive blades just for cutting laminates. I made zero clearance table inserts from 1/2" baltic birch plywood. I fine tuned my blade to its arbor using the dial indicator and the run-out is just over .003". I also used the dial indicator to set the miter slot to within .005" parallel to the blade. Then used the dial indicator to set the fence to within .005" of the miter slot end to end. It all makes adds up to a big difference on the quality of the cut.

Also used a Wixey angle gage to set the table perpendicular to the blade then the 45 & 90 degree stops.

Yes you can align the table using the miter gage and stop rod following the instructions in the owners manual, But the dial indicator and Wixey are fun toys for those of us striving for perfection. And the dial indicator is the only way I know to check the run-out of the blade (if its more than .005" rotate it on the arbor 1/2 turn then check it again if its still out then go 1/4 turns or less to find the sweet spot).

Hope this might help,

Jim in Tucson

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Too much accuracy!

#3887 by charlese » Sat May 26, 2007 2:39 am

Although I can admire folks that go to great extremes (.00x") to manage run out, align saw blades, fences and miter gauges I just can't understand the effort. In order to understand I'll need to see the improvement in results. I posted a couple of pictures of cutting melamine in "Weekly Blog, May 13th". As you can see, there is absolutely no chip out!

I used a second hand circle saw (bought from a pawn shop) with a second hand carbide 7.5" blade and a homemade saw guide. (all pictured). The resulting cut was straight, no chip out on the top and only two small chips on the bottom, in a 34" cut. The cut was good enough to enable gluing a 1/2" oak edge to it. That piece is now a folding leaf on the end of my wife's embroidery work table.

I have many more pictures of doors, joints, panels and projects that show no variance from exact, square and otherwise excellent joints and projects. I've never used micrometer type set ups for my SS nor do I plan to do so in the future. However I would be willing to change if convinced there would be an improved stability, longevity and appearance to my projects.

Do blade adjustments to 3 or 5 thousandths of an inch really result in sharper, flatter, straighter and more accurate cuts? I sincerely doubt it. I'm ready for someone to prove this theory. Yes, in theory such precise adjustments should perform better than those using only bars and squares, but does this theory hold up? For example we can read Forum posts right here, stating the Wixey showed that the manual adjustments were accurate. However the real proof would be have to be illustrated in finished wood products. How can we tell the difference between a product made with a "super adjusted" machine and one with only manual "old fashioned" adjustments. I think we just can't show this! Remember we are working with wood - an inherently unstable product, each piece with separate dimensional properties. Have you ever ripped a board and watched it spread apart or pinch together? Of course we have! We do our best to re-cut, plane and otherwise straighten and flatten work pieces to make project parts, but how can we be absolutely certain of those pieces' dimensional stability? We can't! We even design furniture taking wood movement into consideration and allowing for it. Even after squaring a workpiece, it may change dimension by .003" before we get it installed in our project.

Were the craftsmen of 200 years ago at all concerned about thousandths of inches? Does this furniture still hold up? What would the Shakers say?

Sorry! One of my pet peeves are manufacturers of woodworking products that tout accuracies in the thousandths of inches. To me this is truly baloney!

---

Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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