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#19949 by a1gutterman » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:47 pm

dusty wrote:...Actually, what has happened is I have abandoned my original reason for having a Shopsmith Mark V which was that I didn't have room for all of the various stand alones. Now that is almost what I have.:)
ImageI have been wondering about that! I have always had a little room and several single purpose tools. I find them all useful. Sometimes, when I read about the quantity of SS's that some members have, I laugh at the posts referring to how little space a SS takes up. It is very important to some, but not so for others, eh?

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Tim

Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.

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#19950 by dusty » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:03 pm

Actually, my situation has changed considerably. When I bought the Mark V, I was active duty military and moved frequently. I generally had as much space but it wasn't dedicated. I shared it with household storage. The space in the garage is now MINE, all MINE. I have been very protective of that fact.

BUT, it is getting a little bit more crowded.

I was at Woodcrafters today. They had a SawStop set up on demo. If I took that home I would have to move a whole bunch of stuff out to the shed. It was big enough that I could sleep on the table top if I got kicked out of the house. Just have to lower the blade.

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"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#19953 by charlese » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:47 pm

dusty wrote:It is a discontinued Shopsmith item. It is a 10" Table Saw, Band Saw, and Sanding Station. It can also be used like a Power Station for the Jointer, Belt Sander , Strip Sander and Scroll Saw..

Except for some hardware difference, required to facilitate the main table, it is a power station that is direction reversible.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/craftersstation.htm

Except for some safety issues, I am hard pressed to come up with a reason for why production was terminated.

No, maybe not too hard pressed. One might make the argument that it could compete with the Mark V for sales. Some one who doesn't want to turn might be able to get by with a CS.

If I get this thing running, I'll use it more like a power station than anything else.


Actually - I can tell you why the Crafter's Station was discontinued. My experienced - good guess! The motors don't reverse as intended for a prolonged period. My guess is the motors are (were) not up to par for the demands.

As told earlier, I used to be a Crafter's Station owner. In fact I had two of them. I bought a Crafter's Station when in Texas. With it, I also bought a jointer, bandsaw, and a belt sander. In fact, those are the same SPTs I now have. Also the main table on my Mark V is from the CS.

The CS was advertised to do everything that a Mark V could do except act as a lathe. It would have, if it would just keep running!

My first CS worked fine for several months. Then the reverse motor operation stopped working without a quick twist on the hub. It would hum and would not turn until I gave it a twist. It got so I would twist at the same time as turning on the switch.

I called SS and got a replacement machine. The second machine did exactly like the first - after a little use the reverse would no longer work without a good twist. I struggled with this for another several months. After the non-performance got worse, I gave up and traded that hunk of junk in for a Mark V. It was nice of Shopsmith to take that as a full value trade as I had struggled with it for over a year. I still have good thoughts about the Company for that act. Since then things have been good.

Although at the time I was struggling, SS thought I was having a power problem, the Mark V 510 worked just fine on the same power. I am convinced it is the design of the motor that just wouldn't function as a reversible one for any length of time.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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Crafter's Station

#19956 by dusty » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:52 pm

I sure wish I could put my hands on the machine(s) that you had and didn't like.

If I didn't know a little bit about electronics, I might buy into your theory of "the motor not being able to run in reverse". The fact that the only difference is the polarity of a magnetic field that makes it run one way or the other makes your theory hard to buy.

But, who knows. I haven't gotten this "hunk of junk" to run yet.

Count on it, Charlese - I will. If when I do get it running, it just hums at me - I will find out why.

I sure wish I could put my hands on the motor(s) that you had.

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#19960 by a1gutterman » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:25 am

dusty wrote:...I was at Woodcrafters today. They had a SawStop set up on demo. If I took that home I would have to move a whole bunch of stuff out to the shed. It was big enough that I could sleep on the table top if I got kicked out of the house. Just have to lower the blade.
Hee hee; if you wood have the need to sleep out there on it, you might want to unplug the cord and somehow disable it---so it wood not "accidentally" get plugged in, blade raised and turned on all at the same time, hee hee. SWMBO might go sleep walking or something.:rolleyes:

---

Tim



Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.

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#19962 by charlese » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:28 am

dusty wrote:I sure wish I could put my hands on the machine(s) that you had and didn't like.

If I didn't know a little bit about electronics, I might buy into your theory of "the motor not being able to run in reverse". The fact that the only difference is the polarity of a magnetic field that makes it run one way or the other makes your theory hard to buy.

But, who knows. I haven't gotten this "hunk of junk" to run yet.

Count on it, Charlese - I will. If when I do get it running, it just hums at me - I will find out why.

I sure wish I could put my hands on the motor(s) that you had.


Dusty - Believe me - you wouldn't be happy with them for long. Unless you enjoy electronics more than woodworking.

I had TWO machines, TWO MOTORS! Kept each one until they wouldn't work any more. I Got a replacement for the first CS, and the BRAND NEW replacement worked the same (as badly) as the first one.

There was NO REPORT from Shopsmith to indicate the problem. They had me check out my electric power, in my newly constructed house and garage. They thought the voltage may be low. It turned out to be 114 VAC at 60 CPS.

Actually, I was able to use it and turned out several projects, but got very tired of "cranking" it to get it to run the SPTs. Both CSs shouldn't have worked that way! Enough was Enough for me!:(

BTW - My military MOS was 1384 Weather Equipment Maintenance. This included radio direction finders, their radio recieving and recording equip, drive motors and selson tracking motors. I was assigned as an enlisted instructor in this maintenance. (also helped out the boys over in the radar section) Even though I understand a little about motors, I could not see spending my time to try to fix something (two machines) that should work when new.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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#19963 by dusty » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:59 am

Charlese;

Electronics was my profession for nearly forty years. Woodworking has been my hobby for longer than that.

If my saw's motor won't run and that is what is keeping me from making sawdust - I have the where with all to fix that and I will! Furthermore, I have the passion and the time to make this "hunk of junk" work.

I would bet (based on your description) that the issue was one of two things: The motor doesn't have the startup torgue to get the SPT into motion or the appropriate power wasn't being applied to the motor.

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#19965 by cowboyplus » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:32 am

Dusty, looking at your original wiring diagram, additional info is needed as to where the (at least) 4 wires from the motor are going. Does the relay have any readable numbers, (DPDT), etc.?

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#19966 by dusty » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:16 am

cowboy;

I have reverse engineered the relay and determined that it was a DPST relay. I later determined the part number of that relay (with help from the other forum) and have received/installed a replacement. The relay is not the culprit. I had previously determined that using a test configuration and a meter but I bought a relay to make sure.

I'll document the wiring to the relay later today; however, Nick is having Jim McCann send information that will either confirm or disprove my efforts so far.

I am now also convinced that I have a bad motor. When power is applied, it actually runs slowly and then trips the breaker. The same symptoms if I connect the motor for reverse rotation. This testing is being done on the bench without the relay.

Someone worked on this before - that is why the wiring was in question to start with.

Attachments

relay resized.jpg
relay resized.jpg (118.55 KiB) Viewed 14939 times
CS Wiring.jpg
CS Wiring.jpg (90.61 KiB) Viewed 14939 times

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"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#19971 by charlese » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:25 pm

dusty wrote:...If my saw's motor won't run and that is what is keeping me from making sawdust - I have the where with all to fix that and I will! Furthermore, I have the passion and the time to make this "hunk of junk" work.

I would bet (based on your description) that the issue was one of two things: The motor doesn't have the startup torque to get the SPT into motion or the appropriate power wasn't being applied to the motor.


I certainly, and respectfully defer to your experience. :D

Not ample startup torque? - this was, for sure, the problem. If after a few months of properly working every day - to where did the appropriate power disappear? The power coming into the machines was constant. What happened to suck up that resource? and make the torque get progressively less over time? The manual crank (spin) needed to start the motor(s), grew progressively greater until I tired of putting up with it.

Is it possible that after a great number of reversed polarities, the motor wiring was not ample in size, connections, windings to take the strain? Is there something about changes in magnetic fields that could, over a period of time, cause a resistance (ohms) to develop? Something did! It was like the motor developed more and more resistance (physical) with time and use.

I know you will have fun with yours!:) If yours acts like mine, you will be having a blast!!! Keep us posted on the workings of your CS. It is a fine machine when it runs. Every bit as good as a Mark V, except for turning, and vertical drilling of course.

---

Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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