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Crafter's Station

#20045 by dusty » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:21 pm

johnm wrote:Have you checked winding continuity with an ohm-meter just to make sure that the start winding is functional? If it has opened up, then you won't develop any starting torque as has been mentioned. I'm sort of surprised that this isn't a capacitor-start motor, since those will develop a much higher starting torque than a split-phase motor (which what this sounds like). Poor starting torque is evidence of a bad (probably shorted) capacitor.

This motor might have an embedded thermal protection device (Klixon) which may have opened up and failed. They are usually buried in the end turns of the motor.

If you have one of these motors running and suddenly change the switch to reverse direction, you'll get a big spike in the input current and probably pop your circuit breaker (or the Klixon).

Good hunting!


I have an ohm meter and I have measured between all four combinations of the four leads. The problem being that I don't know what is a good reading and what might be a bad reading. There are no dead shorts.

The motor does have a start capacitor; it is inside of the motor, which I haven't opened yet.

You state that if the motor direction is reversed while it is running there would occur a spike in field current. I suspect that has happened, maybe many times.

This all having been said - I took the motor to a shop here in town to get it checked. They tell me the motor is shorted and would have to be rewound to be repaired.

I don't exactly understand this because when I plug the motor in it actually starts to run though very slowly and with no torgue. Then it pops the breaker.

Nonetheless, I ordered a motor from Shopsmith yesterday. Today I checked status - guess what. It'll go on backorder.

I want to play with my new toy. All day today I fought off the temptation to cannibalize my Power Station to bring up the Crafter's Station.:eek:

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#20047 by cowboyplus » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:33 pm

johnm wrote:...
If you have one of these motors running and suddenly change the switch to reverse direction, you'll get a big spike in the input current and probably pop your circuit breaker (or the Klixon).

...


That will not happen. The centrifical switch is open so nothing will happen until the motor again comes to a near stop, and the centrifical switch again closes, then re-energizing will make the change in rotation.
.

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Crafter's Station Motor Control

#20051 by dusty » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:07 pm

Thank you cowboy. I think I now understand what I have been in the shop looking at for the last hour+.

I was told, by the motor shop, that the motor was shorted so I brought it home to dissect. I have been out there in the shop doing continuity checks on the motor; mostly on the various contacts. The centrifical switch is a very interesting mechanical wonder. I know what it does and why but I just can't figure out exactly how.

I also see what is being done with the contacts, the capacitor and the switch. This old dead motor just might be worth it's weight right now in what I am learning from it.

Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about whether this motor had a starting capacitor and a centrifical switch. I can now say with confidence that it does.

I believe that I will now be able to create a circuit drawing of the Shopsmith motor as it is in the Crafter's Station and the Power Station.

This will allow me to understand how the circuits in the Crafter's Station facilitate the switching action.

BTW Cowboy, what do you do for a living? How did you become so savvy?

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#20054 by dicksterp » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:47 am

If it is the centrifical switch and it is not closing, it may be due to dirt, burrs on the pivot points of the weights or possibly weak or broken springs. I have always been under the impression that the centrifical switch was to keep the motor from overspeeding.

Dick

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#20057 by dusty » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:15 am

In some applications, Dick, that is exactly what they are used for.

In the case of these motors, I believe they are being used only to disable the boost current that is required to start the motor into motion. Once moving adequately, the start current is disabled by the centrigical switch.

Now that I have had the motor open and can see the switch, I am intrigued by its simplicity while at the same time being confused by its operation.:confused:

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#20060 by johnm » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:56 am

cowboyplus wrote:That will not happen. The centrifical switch is open so nothing will happen until the motor again comes to a near stop, and the centrifical switch again closes, then re-energizing will make the change in rotation.
.


You're right...I was thinking of a capacitor-run motor rather than a capacitor-start motor.

If you've got a shorted turn in the motor then it will draw a large current a run slowly, if at all. That sounds like the diagnosis that you've gotten from the motor shop.

---

John Mallick
Dripping Springs, TX

Beginning Woodworker
Passable Barbecue'er

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Crafter's Station Needs a New Motor

#20179 by BigSky » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:45 am

On the 28th of July, I gave in to the fact that if the Crafter's Station was ever going to be used to make sawdust I was going to have to sacrifice my budget and buy a new motor.

On that same day I placed an order for a new motor (516038). This is not the original motor used in the Crafter's Station (515623) but it is listed as a replacement when you do an item number search on the Shopsmith web site.

I later learned that this is the motor called out for the Power Station.

I was prepared to wait awhile for my motor; yielding to the fact that I may not make sawdust on the Crafter's Station for a couplw weeks. Then to my great pleasure, I checked the opnline status of my purchase order and was delighted to find that it had been shipped on the 29th of July with an estimated delivery date of 1 August 2008 (Friday).

Well here it is 3 August and the FedEx status shows my package arrived in Phoenix on August 1 and hasn't left there yet. The new estimated delivery date is 4 August.

Next week is full of appointments so I may not be making sawdust for yet another week.

This may be a blessing because I am also still waiting for technical assistance from Shopsmith. I'm hoping for a detailed wiring diagram so that I can confirm that I have rebuilt the wiring harness correctly.

---

MarkFive510

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Crafter's Station Needs a New Motor

#20180 by dusty » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:49 am

On the 28th of July, I gave in to the fact that if the Crafter's Station was ever going to be used to make sawdust I was going to have to sacrifice my budget and buy a new motor.

On that same day I placed an order for a new motor (516038) for $250.60. This became $291.39 with taxes and shipping. This is not the original motor used in the Crafter's Station (515623) but it is listed as a replacement when you do an item number search on the Shopsmith web site.

I later learned that this is the motor called out for the Power Station.

I was prepared to wait awhile for my motor; yielding to the fact that I may not make sawdust on the Crafter's Station for a couplw weeks. Then to my great pleasure, I checked the opnline status of my purchase order and was delighted to find that it had been shipped on the 29th of July with an estimated delivery date of 1 August 2008 (Friday).

Well here it is 3 August and the FedEx status shows my package arrived in Phoenix on August 1 and hasn't left there yet. The new estimated delivery date is 4 August.

Next week is full of appointments so I may not be making sawdust for yet another week.

This may be a blessing because I am also still waiting for technical assistance from Shopsmith. I'm hoping for a detailed wiring diagram so that I can confirm that I have rebuilt the wiring harness correctly

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#20182 by a1gutterman » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:13 pm

dusty wrote:...Well here it is 3 August and the FedEx status shows my package arrived in Phoenix on August 1 and hasn't left there yet. The new estimated delivery date is 4 August.

Next week is full of appointments so I may not be making sawdust for yet another week.

This may be a blessing because I am also still waiting for technical assistance from Shopsmith. I'm hoping for a detailed wiring diagram so that I can confirm that I have rebuilt the wiring harness correctly
Hi dusty,
Another Fed-Up story...Image! Let's hope that Nick and Jim come through for you...

originally posted on July 9, this thread
Nick wrote:Dusty, I asked Jim to look up the wiring diagram in the Engineering files. I'll post the drawing when he finds it.

With all good wishes,
__________________
Nick Engler, Director
Shopsmith National Woodworking Academy

---

Tim

Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.

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#20183 by dusty » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:38 pm

I do too but if they don't I'll have to go it alone. I feel that I have this thing figured out but I'd feel better with some data from them on the wiring harness and interface to the motor.

Remember, I am working on a unit that was inoperative due to wiring and the motor was shorted out. The big question in my mind is which came first.

If I knew the motor caused a problem that resulted in the harness being damaged and then someone went to work on it and didn't rewire correctly - I have one scenario.

If someone for some reason messed up the wiring and that caused the motor to fail - I have a different scenario.

Actually, I suspect the first.

If I had an engineering approved detailed wiring diagram for the motor and the CS interface to the motor - I wouldn't have any doubt.

Since this engineer is the one who certified the detailed drawing - well that's another story.

Hopefully, tomorrow tells the whole story!

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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