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16 posts 1 2

Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260079 by UncleBob71 » Thu May 30, 2019 10:42 pm

:eek: I just bought an old shopsmith 10e sn/7461 and when I got it home and cleaned it up I noticed the case was cracked at the top bolt location where the jigsaw bolts to the head case. I'm in the middle of bidding on another case 10er on ebay and my question is can I swap all the equipment from the 10e to the 10er ? This is my 1st ss and my 15yr old son is loving the lathe. He already made his 1st pen and we only had it a month or so. I'd like to be able to hand this old unit down in the future but I wanna make sure it's worth the time and $

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260085 by ChrisNeilan » Fri May 31, 2019 6:41 am

Swap away, no problem. Is the crack so severe that the headstock needs replacement? They are very resilient...

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Chris Neilan

Shopsmith Mark 7, Shopsmith Mark V 1982, shortened, Shopsmith 10 ER; Craftsman table saw (1964); Powermatic 3520B lathe

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260094 by chapmanruss » Fri May 31, 2019 11:45 am

Before you buy another headstock note that there were 7 versions of the Model 10 headstock and you can't swap some parts between them. I will add more information next.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260096 by chapmanruss » Fri May 31, 2019 12:19 pm

Your headstock is version 2. Between version 1 and 3 the changes that occurred in the headstock had to do with the pin or block that keeps the quill return spring in place. Also the switch hole is lower on headstock version 1. All parts are interchangeable for these first 3 versions. Version 1 to 3 were from the beginning serial number 1001 to about S/N 20000. The change on the fourth version added the keyed quill lock. Below is a list of the changes for the 7 headstock versions. NOTE: there is a pre-production headstock version but the only known ones existing are at the Shopsmith plant.

1 – First 10E’s Pin for Quill return spring housing instead of cast on blocks as on all later headstocks, brass double wedge quill and way tube locks, Switch hole lower on headstock for this version only (10E S/N 1077)

2- Double wedge quill and way tube locks, Narrow (3/16”) cast on block, top only for Quill return spring housing (10E S/N 8865) Early 10E brass double wedges for quill and way tube locks (10E S/N 4708)

3 - Double wedge quill and way tube locks, Narrow (3/16”) cast on block, bottom only for Quill return spring housing (10E S/N 17731, 19541)

4 - Double wedge quill and way tube locks & keyed quill lock, Narrow (3/16”) cast on blocks for Quill return spring housing (10E S/N 25951, 10ER S/N’s R33231, R36013, R41856, R42458)

5 - Double wedge quill and way tube locks & keyed quill lock, Wide (3/8”) cast on blocks for Quill return spring housing (10ER S/N R50474) in 0151 Owner’s Manual

6 - Single wedge quill and way tube locks, Wide (3/8”) cast on blocks for Quill return spring housing (10ER S/N’s R55037, R55582, R57367, R60582, R63716, R64000) First shown in Owner’s Manual 0451 Copyright 1951

7 - Same as version 6 but cutout behind logo plate, Single wedge locks, Wide (3/8”) cast on blocks for Quill return spring housing (10ER S/N R64381, 69236, 76928) believe by Feb. 52

If you get a later headstock you may need different quill and way tube locks and the correct quill return spring housing.

Even though some have more than one version the Quill assembly, Drive Sleeve assembly, Pinion and it's related parts (except the quill return spring housing) and belt cover are interchangeable.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260130 by chapmanruss » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:02 pm

UncleBob71,
I'm not sure if you have seen my other posts. If the headstock auction that ends today on ebay (S/N R-30007, headstock version 4) is the one you are looking at, it is compatible with your headstock parts. The quill lock parts from yours will work in the keyed quill lock. Let us know how it is going and if we can answer any other questions.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260133 by UncleBob71 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:26 pm

Yes that is the one I'm bidding on. And my current case is cracked at the top bolt location that holds the jigsaw bolt and prevents me from putting any torque on the bolt without stripping. I currently have some jb weld and a clamp which seems to be working but I'd like to swap the case so it looks original. Plus I noticed that the 10er has a build up of cast iron that will make a better fit. Thank you all who have responded.

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260138 by everettdavis » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:18 pm

I know it is not quite the specific question you asked, however Cast Iron Crack and Thread repair is possible without welding.

If this is not what you were looking for, perhaps others can use it to restore something else that is not available when they have a cast iron crack.

I helped do this type of repair 20 years ago with a similar product to the Lock-N-Stitch method that is illustrated in the series of three YouTube videos I cite below.

We did this nature of crack repair for a 8560 John Deere tractor with a block that froze and cracked the side of the block. It was in a 1 year old tractor that was bought at auction for a fraction of what its value otherwise would have been. Replacing the block in a 1 year old tractor would have been astronomical.

My late father-in-law at the time then used it on the family cotton farm (with the proper antifreeze installed) for three years before selling it to a neighbor for twice what he paid for it originally at auction. The neighbor still got a great value on a proven tractor with very little hours on it.

This type of technique has been used in machine shops for decades, and some very rare vintage engines and other equipment has been restored to service in this manner.

I haven’t tried it on a 10E or 10ER headstock yet as I have never had one crack but I can certainly foresee it working though.

Again these videos are not of the product I used 20 years ago, nor did we use the lock solution this company illustrates now.

We did not need to use the jigs they use to space the inserts. We drilled a hole just beyond the end of the crack, put in a self-tapping pin which we broke off and ground flush.

We then center punched a new center for a new hole that would intersect part of the plug we just installed which locked it in place and repeated it until we filled the entire space.

We used a pin descaler tool and allowed it to peen the surface which resembled the grain of the casting and painted it. You could not see the repair. It never leaked in 3 years of farm use, and to my knowledge is still running 20 years later.

A machine shop should be able to point you in the right direction, or do it for you.

These three YouTube videos are necessary to see the entire process and for some reason they don’t auto play in sequence. YouTube likes to substitute other videos at times.

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq0wfU4ZaKk Initial repair of crack

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIKY--USk7Y - using their lock solution on the crack

3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XfTORBtcSE - Thread repair insert

They end abruptly but are complete when viewed in sequence.

For pricing on their crack repair supplies and tools contact them at info@locknstitch.com or 800 736-8261 or 209 632-2345

Again that is not the company we used 20 years ago, but they are reputable and have a success story in doing just what you would need.

Kindest Regards,

Everett

Update 6/3/2019: I was PM'd a question which I answered but for those who might have wondered, No we did not take the block out of the tractor. We were able to access the side of the block without any major disassembly, repaired it in place, and saved 10's of thousands of dollars opposed to a new block and time it would have taken to remove and install it. We did the whole job with tractor outside in about an hour, aside from painting.
1989 John Deere 8560 Tractor.jpg
1989 John Deere 8560 Tractor.jpg (54.55 KiB) Viewed 1555 times
Last edited by everettdavis on Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260142 by UncleBob71 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:37 pm

That is not an option for my cracked case. Its cracked along the top of the case to just above the set screw that holds the quell shaft. I've tried to upload a pic but couldn't do it from my cell phone Haha smart phone, dumb owner haha

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Re: Need help w new purchase of an old 10e w major prob

#260143 by UncleBob71 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:37 pm

Well that was that. That case I've been bidding on just sold and I was down to 52 secs and was out bidded by a couple dollars and Ebay didnt let my place a new bid with well over 30 secs left hahaha. Damn you Ebay haha

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The down side of waiting that long. I just did the same thing while bidding on a new headstock. Should have set my last bid (1 min remaining) at $250.

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"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Microsoft Surface Pro using Firefox.

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