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New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248238 by chapmanruss » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:35 pm

IMG_0692c.jpg
IMG_0692c.jpg (212.09 KiB) Viewed 4916 times

Just picked up another restoration project, as if I did not have enough with the 4 I already have waiting. This one needs to be saved as if I am not mistaken, it is one of the original 250 shipped out October 15, 1947 to Montgomery Ward stores on the West Coast. It does answer some questions about the original 10E and the pre-production one shown in the original manual sent out with them. It has the first 10E headstock not the one shown that Everett has named the Model 10. The base, arm, headrest, carriage, tie bar, etc. are the same ones common to the 10E. Of note is the 8" Lathe Tool Rest. It is the one shown in that original manual with it's post to mount it in the arm a screw in part. It did not have an arbor with it so I am unable to answer the question about an earlier arbor like the one shown in the original manual. I will add that it is in very good shape for a 70 year old machine and has very little rust. More in the PDF below.

1077 update 1.pdf
(245.37 KiB) Downloaded 433 times

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248240 by everettdavis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:44 pm

Great find! I noticed that in the PDF the extremely scarce large back Rip Fence Lock Assembly is present so this guy got an upgrade somewhere back in the day.

What area of the country did you find 1077?

I will be in Ohio next month and if I am fortunate, I believe I might get to physically see SN 0002. I hope to take lots of photos of it if they will allow it.

I would love to acquire 1077 should you decide to part with it.

Everett

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248242 by chapmanruss » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:19 pm

Hi Everett,
It does have the Rear Fence lock addition but still had a wood extension table and not the original wood. This is my third Rear fence lock and one is in the box still, never used. I bought this from the nephew of the original owner and I'm hoping he can find some of the original paperwork in his uncles stuff. I live just outside of Portland, Oregon and it was here. Being on the west coast gave me a better chance at finding it. Portland had one of the Montgomery Ward catalog warehouse stores. It's 10 stories tall and the first 4 floors were retail space and the rest was the catalog warehouse.

I would love to get to Ohio sometime and tour the Shopsmith factory. Is SN 0002 one of the pre-production units used as demo and factory machines that look more like the one shown in the original manual? I hope you can get some pictures. Maybe you can find out more about the documents from Goldschmidt you have mentioned before. I have to ask do you believe as I do that the Serial Numbers for production machines sold to the public started with 1001? Not counting the 10ER's sold in Australia the lowest numbers I have seen are 1032 from Skip's list, 1036 that was for sale a few years ago in eastern Washington and this one at 1077.

At this time I plan to keep it and will likely sell S/N 4708 at some point.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248244 by everettdavis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:52 pm

Touring the factory is something you have to schedule with them way ahead of time as they are not open to the public and need to schedule have someone there to let you in and act as your guide.

To my understanding the original casting headstocks were the first handful of demonstrators that were ALL pulled back to the factory and used as precision drill presses in production of the 10E that was sold to Montgomery Ward.

These headstock castings are different than the 10E (10 Enhanced as I have heard some old-timers call them) and opposed to the 10ER (10E Revised again as I have heard some old-timers call them)

That is why I named that Casting the 10, which was so early in manufacturing, that even the Preliminary Manual already had the 10E headstock shown with the revised casting.

I understand keeping 1077. If you ever change your mind.... contact me first.

Everett
10 vs 10E Headstock Casting.png
10 vs 10E Headstock Casting.png (661.33 KiB) Viewed 4891 times

2nd Shopsmith Made reduced size for forum.png
2nd Shopsmith Made reduced size for forum.png (339.05 KiB) Viewed 4891 times

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248247 by chapmanruss » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:39 pm

Everett,
As always you have some great reference materials. I enjoy going through them to find new information I have not previously seen. I have the 10E almost disassembled and will take more pictures tomorrow. I want to document the individual parts, especially the ones that are different. I have already noticed some differences. The Feed Pinion does not have the flat ends on the shaft for the set screw of the Feed Lever Knobs. These are the kind of things I want to note as I compare it to my 10E S/N 4708 which has been restored and 17731 which is waiting to be restored. It looks like 4708 is going to have some disassembly and re-assembly for comparisons. It will also help comparing it to your 10E S/N 1414.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248255 by everettdavis » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:27 am

I would suspect that it originally had brass locks for quill and headstock based on that 1077 serial number.

Everett

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248258 by rjent » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:42 am

Wow Russ, great find! Isn't it amazing how many of these old girls are still around. I love and use all of mine.

Make her pretty! LOL

Congrats! :cool:

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Dick

1965 Mark VII S/N 407684
1951 10 ER S/N ER 44570 -- Reborn 9/16/14
1950 10 ER S/N ER 33479 Reborn July 2016
1950 10 ER S/N ER 39671
1951 jigsaw
1951 !0 ER #3 in rebuild
500, Jointer, Bsaw, Bsander
Planer
2014 Mark 7 W/Lift assist - 14 4" Jointer - DC3300
And a plethora of small stuff .....


"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248272 by chapmanruss » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:28 pm

Yes Everett,
Brass Wedges all around. We may have an additional headstock version depending on how you want to address changes. This one does not have cast on blocks to hold the Quill return spring housing in place but has a single pin instead.

Headstock Pin.jpg
Headstock Pin.jpg (285.42 KiB) Viewed 4665 times


Also the Quill return spring housing is made of aluminum and bends quite easy. Probably why they changed the material it was made out of. I will try to save it but for function a steel one may need to replace it. The collar compresses it in around the hole that slides over the Pinion Shaft until it pinches the spring against the larger pinion shaft sleeve, next to the gear teeth. To keep the spring from unwinding because it is not being held tight against the headstock and pin the collar has to be readjusted in. I hope that makes sense. It may be hard to show that in a picture and I have almost everything apart right now.

Spring Housing.jpg
Spring Housing.jpg (543.62 KiB) Viewed 4665 times


Thanks Dick,
I will make her pretty and completely functional again. It will take some time as I want to take pictures of each part to catalog them against the first parts list. I also want pictures of the assemblies as they go back together. My first step is to clean up the parts. I think the pictures will come out better that way. This one was not on a bench so I will use the metal Shopsmith bench ends, 2 x 8 wood and retractable casters. I do realize that this Model 10E would not have been on that bench setup originally and I could go with the wood bench from the plans they sent out with these machines but I don't believe they did that with these first Model 10E's either. I will go on the premise that the bench was a later upgrade.

Check back on the progress and differences found as I go. Pictures will most likely be in PDF's as I still do not have a good photo editing program anymore so it's hard to shrink the pic size down to fit here. I will build a PDF catalog of the parts & assemblies that will complete this project.

Edited 4-27-18 to add pictures
Last edited by chapmanruss on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248279 by everettdavis » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:13 pm

chapmanruss wrote:Yes Everett,
Brass Wedges all around. We may have an additional headstock version depending on how you want to address changes. This one does not have cast on blocks to hold the Quill return spring housing in place but has a single pin instead. Pictures to follow. Also the Quill return spring housing is made of aluminum and bends quite easy. Probably why they changed the material it was made out of. I will try to save it but for function a steel one may need to replace it. The collar compresses it in around the hole that slides over the Pinion Shaft until it pinches the spring against the larger pinion shaft sleeve, next to the gear teeth. To keep the spring from unwinding because it is not being held tight against the headstock and pin the collar has to be readjusted in. I hope that makes sense. It may be hard to show that in a picture and I have almost everything apart right now.

Thanks Dick,
I will make her pretty and completely functional again. It will take some time as I want to take pictures of each part to catalog them against the first parts list. I also want pictures of the assemblies as they go back together. My first step is to clean up the parts. I think the pictures will come out better that way. This one was not on a bench so I will use the metal Shopsmith bench ends, 2 x 8 wood and retractable casters. I do realize that this Model 10E would not have been on that bench setup originally and I could go with the wood bench from the plans they sent out with these machines but I don't believe they did that with these first Model 10E's either. I will go on the premise that the bench was a later upgrade.

Check back on the progress and differences found as I go. Pictures will most likely be in PDF's as I still do not have a good photo editing program anymore so it's hard to shrink the pic size down to fit here. I will build a PDF catalog of the parts & assemblies that will complete this project.



You can do something very functional in sizing with the old standby Windows MSPaint. You can retrieve a file, (be sure to save it in a new name so when you re-size and save it, you will still have the full size picture).

Just (paused a second while I grabbed a screen shot of this and illustrate how to do it) You can resize by Percent or by Pixels. Easy to do in pixels and you just select the Horizontal or Vertical you need to bring it down to, and plug in that number. Paint resizes it, and you save, and then you can upload to Forums in a size they will take. I like using it as no matter what Windows based computer I may be on, has MSPaint installed.

Everett

See below:
For Russ.png
For Russ.png (121.37 KiB) Viewed 4799 times

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Re: New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

#248299 by chapmanruss » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:10 pm

Thanks Everett,
I did the free upgrade to Windows 10 and they didn't include paint with it. One of the many fun things of that upgrade. I like the older Windows version but than I could be using my photo editing program still. I had to quit using it with Windows 8.

Everyone is invited to add in to this topic as I wish this to better inform us as to the changes made from the first Model 10E's to the last Model 10ER's. All the information Everett has compiled for us combined with new information will help others find what they need to restore their Shopsmith. If anyone else has one of these early Model 10E Shopsmiths please compare yours with what I am finding.

1077 Update 2.pdf
(1.04 MiB) Downloaded 345 times


Most of the machine has been disassembled except the quill and table system. I will be working on them and get pictures too.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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