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everettdavis wrote:Added a file for the Button Bearing Illustration that was privately requested by a non-forum member who requested it through the Shopsmith Owners Facebook Group. It is also on My Google Drive

Everett
Button Bearing Illustration.jpg


Pushed - yes, but pulled - never (if lower floating sheave is well lubricated). The purpose of the loop is to hold the inner race/button stationary.

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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#260236 by everettdavis » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:06 am

Control Sheave should move to push back and will if lubricated move as the spring pushing on the motor idler sheave will close together if rotating.

If one takes the drive belt off and move the speed control with nothing else moving the clip does pull the button bearing, staked into the control sheave.

You can observe that. Equally if the control sheave is not free, the loop will get pulled out of the roll pin eventually. If the bearing seizes up, the loop sometimes gets twisted off

I understand what you said is true as to purpose but it does pull on the button.

Everett

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#260866 by everettdavis » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:06 am

For LarryM who emailed me about the Shopsmith Bandsaw

There is a document titled "Why is the Shopsmith Bandsaw so different than other Bandsaws?" in the Bandsaw folder under the My Google Drive Link on the first page of this thread.

It was a document I created using the original patent application as a base to work from. Obviously I arranged it in a more readable form, enhanced the photos, and made it zoom capable in PDF form.

I worked with a number of folks during the process back in 2017 when I started it. There are a number of folks who assisted, commented, questioned what was presented and contrasted it to what others know, have said, or simply believe.

The illustrations alone will assist in understanding why it is different, and what the inventors were patenting that made it different.

Obviously through the years various production changes, third party accessories, even user modifications have made it into the tens of thousands of Shopsmith Bandsaws still in use and still in production today.

I will have more to say and illustrate on that subject when I finish my Shopsmith book which includes factory production photos taken during book research in Dayton.

I would highly recommend that you join the forum and post such questions in the forums so the rich knowledge of others here can contribute to your questions. I know you referred to yourself as a long-time lurker, benefiting from the knowledge base here.

Respectfully, that knowledge comes in the form of questions asked and questions answered for the benefit of others.

If you don't ask here, and pursue email only, I am only one person and can't answer everyone individually even if I knew all the answers.

It is why my email response to you was a link to this specific post in this thread, for the benefit of others seeking answers who also may be just lurking.... about. Come on in, the water is fine, and all of us who have posted were new here once too.

Kindest Regards,

Everett

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#261172 by everettdavis » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:01 pm

How can I prove that the contacts on my switch or relay are burned and causing a problem?

I was asked that question today by an equipment owner who tracked me down from Australia.

I asked her “Do you understand fundamentals of electrical circuits and basic electricity AC or DC?”

Let’s review:

Voltage - an electromotive force or potential difference expressed in volts. (The ‘V’ in Ohms Law)

Resistance - is an electrical quantity that measures how the device or material reduces the electric current flow through it. The resistance is measured in units of ohms (Ω). (The ‘R’ in Ohms Law)

Current - is the flow of electrical charge carriers like electrons measured in Amperes or fractions of Amps. (The ‘I’ in Ohms law)

Ohms Law - The potential difference (voltage) across an ideal conductor is proportional to the current through it. The constant of proportionality is called the "resistance", R. Ohm's Law is given by: V = I R where V is the potential difference between two points which include a resistance R.

V = I R Some express Voltage simply as the IR drop.

Here is the key thing to remember: you learned it in Math at an early age: any number multiplied by 0 is 0.

If voltage is a measure of the difference of potential between two points then two contacts of a switch or relay when they are physically touching each other should have no difference of potential between them. When they are not touching they should have the full potential of the voltage available in the circuit whether it is 120 Volts AC or 12 Volts DC if the circuit is otherwise complete and it is measurable and observable with a multimeter set to the appropriate range.

If you safely place the leads at points on either side, you can observe the voltage under both conditions - full voltage or 0. Equally you can place the leads at the appropriate terminals of a wiring harness connector to measure (but that will include a small resistance in the wire)

Are you following this so far?

That means anything you can safely connect with the proper setup of the tool, can be measured in operation.

What if it doesn’t go to 0?

Ah Ha! There is always a voltage drop across a resistance and resistance of burned switch contacts are no different.

In her case the very small DC voltage generated by the thermocouple on your water heater that passes through the resettable thermal safety switch that opens (trips like a breaker) should be at 0.

Now you may have to set the DC range to the lowest setting to measure it, but you can see if that safety device is burned (ok internally oxidized by proximity to heat over years of cycling flame on and off)

Just a little voltage drop there when you are dealing with a fraction of a volt to start with can and will make the gas valve unreliable and unpredictable. Those safety switches are made to trip if the temperatures get out of range and shut off gas flow including the pilot which keeps the thermocouple warm and generating that small voltage.

Caution: Do Not bypass it. Order the right part and replace it. They’ve about $6 to $10 depending on brand.

Also most of the others parts in the burner assembly are reasonably priced. The gas valve itself is more expensive but if the water heater is otherwise in good shape and not leaking, $750 to $1000 plus the plumbers labor and be postponed perhaps for years.

Ok Shopsmith members, why on earth do I post this here?

First, the same techniques work for Shopsmith switches and relays (even to prove corrosion/resistance in various lengths of wire exists). Yes motor wires and power cords....

But also this particular Water Heater was made by A.O. Smith, the same A.O. Smith that made Shopsmith motors for decades.

As the late Paul Harvey might have said “And now, you know the rest of the story.”

Blessings everyone,

Everett

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Thanks Everett...I enjoyed your post. I only wanted to add two comments.

1. I have only seen bad switch contacts once in my life, but I have seen it. I never encountered them in my EE career, but before it, while helping my Dad (Electrician) on a job we had it on a brand new light switch. It came straight from the electrical supplier and appeared brand new, so presumably it should have been "good". Installed it and it didn't work. Tested with DMM and got voltage (120V) on both sides, but clearly the switch contacts were high resistance, hence limiting current flow and the light was off as a result. Just wanted to share this anecdote because it DOES happen, so never assume a switch or relay, etc. is "good" even if it is brand new. Test and verify...

2. I agree on the water heater, but if it can't be easily fixed, I just wanted to give my endorsement for Bradford White water heaters (https://www.bradfordwhite.com/). I have had several AO Smith water heaters go bad, i.e. crack in water tank and leaked (after 1-2 years of service and they were drained, etc. and maintained). I had much better luck with Bradford White. I believe AO Smith water heaters are imported while Bradford White are made in USA. If you have to replace one, I would recommend considering Bradford White brand water heaters. Just my 2 cents...

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#261183 by everettdavis » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:26 am

RFGuy wrote:Thanks Everett...I enjoyed your post. I only wanted to add two comments.

I agree on the water heater, but if it can't be easily fixed, I just wanted to give my endorsement for Bradford White water heaters (https://www.bradfordwhite.com/).

I have had several AO Smith water heaters go bad, i.e. crack in water tank and leaked (after 1-2 years of service and they were drained, etc. and maintained). I had much better luck with Bradford White. I believe AO Smith water heaters are imported while Bradford White are made in USA. If you have to replace one, I would recommend considering Bradford White brand water heaters. Just my 2 cents...


Thank you.

I mentioned that the Australian lady who contacted me had the A.O. Smith water heater. She is now in the U.S. but didn't state where specifically.

As far as burned contacts go, in the HVAC arena 'contactors' as they tend to refer to large compressor start relays, are very susceptible to having burned contacts. Some of the cheap alloys coming out of China used in thermal reset overload switches oxidize more than actually burning-up and that introduces the resistance in the contacts creating problems. Since they are measuring the combustion chamber itself, they tend to oxidize and cause a voltage drop as they heat and cool thousands of times over the life of the water heater. When you're dealing with less than 1 volt DC coming off the thermocouple, it is a problem on the older surviving units that didn't have a tank leak.

I personally have a Bradford White and it is about 10 years old and working well.

Everett
BW 40.jpg
BW 40.jpg (99.15 KiB) Viewed 10732 times

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#261258 by everettdavis » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:04 pm

The very first Mark 5's Greenies as we call them had a production change fairly early on after the field reported some damage occurring.

In the earliest Direct Drive Gilmer units when a saw blade would seize in stock, the Gilmer belt would not be able to disengage.

These would have been the production runs within earliest unit vintages of the Sand Cast 'A Heasdtocks' without a rear inspection hole.

I have looked for a date or early 1950's document announcing it, but haven't come across one yet. If you have one please share it and I will get it retouched if necessary and re-published here.

I also placed the photo below in the Bearings Folder of My Google Drive link listed on the first post in the thread. Our friend, the late Bill Mayo had told me of them years ago, and I have seen them as well.

If I ever get enough new material to reconsider a Bearing Guide update, I will include a photo with in the Drive Sleeve Section that shows the Gilmer with Internal Clutch.

Kindest Regards,

Everett
Earliest Greenies Mark 5 series had no clutch in Gilmer Drive - Everett.JPG
Earliest Greenies Mark 5 series had no clutch in Gilmer Drive - Everett.JPG (116.79 KiB) Viewed 10654 times

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#262017 by everettdavis » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:27 pm

I just uploaded images of the three Shopsmith Planer Models with the OEM Stock Numbers to the Planer folder on My Google Drive, which should help anyone identify what their specific model number started out as, and how it might have been updated / modified / altered in the last 3 decades.

Everett
1st Shopsmith Thickness Planer with Manual Feed 505980-B [1986] Everett.jpg
1st Shopsmith Thickness Planer with Manual Feed 505980-B [1986] Everett.jpg (432.84 KiB) Viewed 9099 times

2nd Shopsmith Thickness Planer with Power Feed 505990-B [1986] Everett.jpg
2nd Shopsmith Thickness Planer with Power Feed 505990-B [1986] Everett.jpg (413.35 KiB) Viewed 9099 times

3rd Shopsmith Professional Planer Cast Iron Bed Power Feed 555082 [1989] Everett.jpeg
3rd Shopsmith Professional Planer Cast Iron Bed Power Feed 555082 [1989] Everett.jpeg (343.79 KiB) Viewed 9099 times

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The 'early' planer had the round thickness crank handle.

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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More

#262049 by everettdavis » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:20 pm

I don’t have a early catalog that shows that round one yet. I’ve gone through all I have.

If you have one, scan and post it with the item number.

Equally I don’t have a planer service manual with an illustrated parts list showing the round crank either.

If someone has one and can scan it in color at 300 DPI please email it to ShopsmithHistorian@gmail.com

Everettt

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