Shopsmith Forums

dusty wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:06 am Frankly, I don't see table stability (when locked) as an issue. Just how much does your table move say at a depth of cut of 3/4".

More than any other table saw on the market, I'd guess. It is more of an issue in operations that apply force to the table. There is a "Video Shop Tip" on the subject: (http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Ar ... Tables.htm)

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:07 am More than any other table saw on the market, I'd guess. It is more of an issue in operations that apply force to the table. There is a "Video Shop Tip" on the subject: (http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Ar ... Tables.htm)

JPG wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:41 pm The larger the table, the more leverage it places on the trunion.

I think JPG has explained the main problem. And the shorter lever arm distance on the smaller 500 table is why it seemed so stable in comparison to larger tables. The legs are further apart on the 510 and 520 tables. I haven't done the measurements but while wider space legs reduce the leverage at the front or back of the table it also contributes to the wiggle Nick Engler talks about in the video.

I don't have 520 tables but it looks they make the connecting tubes easier to install and remove. If I didn't have a table saw I probably would have upgraded my 510 table system by now. The reason I have multiple Shopsmiths is to avoid the time it takes to change modes. That's why I suggest everyone get a cheap used Shopsmith, even a Model 10 to turn into a dedicated drill press. Of course there are plenty of good conventional drill presses available, single post belt changing drill presses that work well, but will certainly cost far more to include all the features you'd have with just a Model 500 dedicated to that mode.

This gets back to how many purposes you can cram into one machine. Larger more tables upgrades to the Model 500 had to be accomplished with multiple table sections. They certainly work better than the 'wings' used to increase table size on many saws like the old Craftsman versions. I don't know how many table ideas were rejected before the 510 was brought forth, or how many more before they settled on the 520. It's a tough nut to crack and one that requires a compromise somewhere.

edma194 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:35 am The reason I have multiple Shopsmiths is to avoid the time it takes to change modes. That's why I suggest everyone get a cheap used Shopsmith, even a Model 10 to turn into a dedicated drill press. Of course there are plenty of good conventional drill presses available, single post belt changing drill presses that work well, but will certainly cost far more to include all the features you'd have with just a Model 500 dedicated to that mode.

Thanks Ed. Yeah, I wanted to make a point about this and you created a perfect segway for it. We all tend to be myopic in that we only see a woodworking shop that is similar to our own and in how we choose to do our specific type of woodworking. So, it is difficult to see the viewpoint of others here. What I mean, is there are many who can and do own several Shopsmith machines. Given their economy on the used market, this makes perfect sense. For me in my small shop, compact as well, I can only fit one Mark V and that's it. Especially since I bought my equipment new, I can't fathom how someone could dedicate a Mark V as, of all things, a standalone sanding station?!?!? Kinda like buying a Kenworth to pull your garden trailer around the yard... I mean yes, I get the utility and at the right price point why not, but it isn't in the front of my mind because I can't work that way in my small shop. It wouldn't fit. I contemplated briefly getting a 10ER but I wanted to mount it vertically on a wall as a standalone drill press so that I could fit it. Could never find a decent looking 10ER locally...in fact very few of any quality ever come up here. My point is what I like about my single, solitary Mark V and what frustrates me on it are going to be totally different than what it is for someone with a larger shop space who can perhaps afford (not just monetarily) to have multiple Mark V's (or other Shopsmith machines) in that shop. Doing infrequent changeovers on a machine meant for constant changeovers is a different experience than what it is for someone like me. Hope this makes sense and frames the problem/solution for everyone. IF many of you are using a 5-in-1 machine but as standalone separates all of the time, it isn't really a multi-tool anymore. Yet, Shopsmith is trying to sell a multi-tool to new or repeat customers. So, I really wonder who they are targeting as a customer today? Is it someone like me that is forced to do constant changeovers on a project, or are they targeting those with more shop space that intend multiple machine purchases (perhaps no changeovers) and can afford it at today's prices? I really don't know anymore who Shopsmith's target demographic is...perhaps they don't know either and that is the problem. Just conjecture.

DLB wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:07 am More than any other table saw on the market, I'd guess. It is more of an issue in operations that apply force to the table. There is a "Video Shop Tip" on the subject: (http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Ar ... Tables.htm)

- David

David,

Thanks. Didn't even know Nick did a video on this, though we have discussed this issue at length on the forum before. Also, why I have commented that the main table alone, sometimes I feel like I can just sneeze in the shop and the table moves a thousandth. To me and my eye, watching that video, I still see the main table move even after he used the connector tubes anchoring it to the aux table at the end of the video. I know the video is low quality and pixelated, but to me it kinda proves the point that even with the connector tubes anchored to the aux table, the main table still has more movement than it should.

Scott did post one of his weekly follow-up videos on the X-6000 video that started this thread. I'm reluctant to put the link here as these follow-up videos are only widely available for a short time.

One of the things he mentioned is that the X6K (you heard it here first) also prototyped another version of the Reeves drive with expanded speed range. That drive had poor belt life, and Scott attributed this as the reason that headstock changes did not make it into production. I accept that, I've been in some engineering meetings where decisions way worse than that were made. But still think the quarter-turn wedge-locks and 2HP motor could stand alone. IMO if SS or someone else offered a 2HP AC induction motor that fit in the headstock (aka conventional smart motor) they'd sell thousands of them. And it wouldn't hurt to take another look at expanding the speed range...

He also discussed/had some additional thoughts on other changes in the X6K that didn't make the cut.

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:24 pm (aka conventional smart motor)

Stop that! ;-)

HopefulSSer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:43 pm

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:24 pm (aka conventional smart motor)

Stop that! ;-)

+1

Also, I watched that transitory video. I agree with David in that I think Shopsmith could have done something more with either the X-6000 or that interesting bandsaw upgrade that was mentioned. I get Scott's explanation for the why, but very disappointing as a customer to hear that there was a better bandsaw, one better suited for resawing that was scrapped as well. The more I learn about the history, the more it sounds like many missed opportunities over the years for this company.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:42 pm very disappointing as a customer to hear that there was a better bandsaw, one better suited for resawing that was scrapped as well.

Don't assume that "New" means "Better". A better assumption would be that there were issues with the prototype bandsaw that made it unsuitable for the market. Performance, costs, a substantial investment to produce it, etc.

thedovetailjoint wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:08 pm Don't assume that "New" means "Better". A better assumption would be that there were issues with the prototype bandsaw that made it unsuitable for the market. Performance, costs, a substantial investment to produce it, etc.

Scott,

Thanks. Yes, you are right. There can always be very valid business reasons not to bring a product to the market. However, being an engineer, I have an enduring spirit & perseverance that whatever design issues exist, they can ultimately be resolved to bring the absolute best product to the market. I've always wondered why a larger format bandsaw was never fielded by Shopsmith though, so thanks for enlightening us.