Arbors

[reible]

There are at least 2 lengths of these. When I first got my machine back in 1976 that arbor was about a 1/4" shorter then the one they now sell. It did how ever have the groove for the lock washer even back then.

There have been 3rd party manufactures and pre-shopsmith owners who could have made just about any thing.

I think the groove and notched washer are something these need to have depending on what is mounted, and while perhaps they did not pay much attention to those safety factors in the old days it is an improvement that one should look for today.

I would like to see a picture of it if you can. I'm guessing it would look pretty much like the one I have minus the groove but if it were an older design or 3rd party then maybe not.

Ed

While looking through my Shopsmith drawer I found an extra 5/8" arbor that I'm not sure exactly what it is.
I have one of the Shopsmith 5/8" molder/dado arbors listed here and I know what that one is.
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... oarbor.htm

The extra one is very similar, but a bit shorter, 1/8-1/4" less on the bolt end. It doesn't have the 3/4" thick washer that the molder/dado arbor has, and it lacks the groove in the bolt for the locking tongue washer. It has been with my Shopsmith for decades, but I don't remember what it is for. I have used it with my wobble dado, but it isn't quite long enough for my multi-blade dado when set to maximum width. Is it maybe just an earlier version of the molder/dado arbor?

[jsburger]

OK, I finally got curious enough to dig out all of my arbors that came with the 5 10ER's I have. That was 3 arbors and this is what I found about all three.

The threaded portion is 1 13/16" long, threaded all the way and no key way.

They all take a 1/8" allen wrench in the set screw.

Two have the normal wrench flats on the spindle end and one does not .

They all have the 3/4" thick by 1 1/2" dia spacer and is under cut.

Two of them have a single under cut 3/16" thick by 1 1/2" dia spacer and one has two.

In contrast the current (late 90's) arbor has this.

The threaded portion is 1 15/16" long, partially threaded with a key way.

It takes the now standard 5/32" allen wrench in the set screw.

It has the wrench flats on the spindle end and the spindle end is larger in diameter.

The thick spacer is 5/8" thick by 1 7/8" dia and is under cut.

There are two 3/16" thick by 1 1/2" dia spacers and a keyed washer.


RPD:

I have to think the arbor you have (pictured in post 232815) is very unique. The spindle end looks to be the same diameter as the other 10ER arbors but you say it has a larger set screw. The threaded shaft is only 1 5/8" long and not threaded all the way and it has a key and keyed?? washer. That is why with only one 3/16" spacer the nut is flush with the end of the shaft.

Garys:

I think you have a standard 10ER arbor but missing the 3/4" spacer.

The real odd ball is the one RPD has.

Of course there is the one described in the 10E preliminary manual. I wonder if they ever made it to production. I sure would like to find one.

The pictures show 3 10ER arbors and the current SS arbor. The blade is thin kerf so subtract 1/16" from the shaft protruding from the nut.

[rpd]

OK, I finally got curious enough to dig out all of my arbors that came with the 5 10ER's I have. That was 3 arbors and this is what I found about all three.

The threaded portion is 1 13/16" long, threaded all the way and no key way.

They all take a 1/8" allen wrench in the set screw.

Two have the normal wrench flats on the spindle end and one does not .

They all have the 3/4" thick by 1 1/2" dia spacer and is under cut.

Two of them have a single under cut 3/16" thick by 1 1/2" dia spacer and one has two.

In contrast the current (late 90's) arbor has this.

The threaded portion is 1 15/16" long, partially threaded with a key way.

It takes the now standard 5/32" allen wrench in the set screw.

It has the wrench flats on the spindle end and the spindle end is larger in diameter.

The thick spacer is 5/8" thick by 1 7/8" dia and is under cut.

There are two 3/16" thick by 1 1/2" dia spacers and a keyed washer.


RPD:

I have to think the arbor you have (pictured in post 232815) is very unique. The spindle end looks to be the same diameter as the other 10ER arbors but you say it has a larger set screw. The threaded shaft is only 1 5/8" long and not threaded all the way and it has a key and keyed?? washer. That is why with only one 3/16" spacer the nut is flush with the end of the shaft.

Garys:

I think you have a standard 10ER arbor but missing the 3/4" spacer.

The real odd ball is the one RPD has.

Of course there is the one described in the 10E preliminary manual. I wonder if they ever made it to production. I sure would like to find one.

The pictures show 3 10ER arbors and the current SS arbor. The blade is thin kerf so subtract 1/16" from the shaft protruding from the nut.

John.
Sorry for the delay in responding, it has been a busy week.
I think I may have solved the mystery of the anomalous arbor. Today I climbed up and check my boxes of parts on the high shelf, and found a 3/4" washer in state of rust that matches the other parts of that arbor, (which is bright steel, not aluminum ), so I suspect that thicker washer was not stock and had been swapped in from a different arbor.

I have taken a new picture of the two arbors.

arbors.JPG (233.87 KiB) Viewed 13768 times

The one on the left has the 1/8" set screw and no key-way. Consistent with the 10er accessory catalogs.
The one on the right has the key-way and the 5/32" set screw, (and is reunited with the correct thick washer), Consistent with the 1954 Mk5/10er accessory catalog
Neither of them is threaded all the way. It could be that the length of threading was different between arbors made in the California plant and those made in the plant back east.

Regarding the arbor mentioned in the preliminary 10e manual. We know it was written based on the prototype machine and that there were other differences between that one and the production run. So either the design was changed prior to production or the person writing the Preliminary Manual made a mistake.

The 10e Owners Guide describes the arbor this way.

" CIRCULAR SAW
...
Place blade between washers, large washer first, on arbor, with teeth
pointing toward the operator, and tighten. ..."

This is consistent with the ones we have.

[robinson46176]

Following this thread and looking at the pictures makes me wonder if any of you 10-ER guys run stabilizer washers on your saw blades?
I have a 10-ER but I've never actually gotten around to using it as a table saw. I use my Ridgid TS3650 for the bulk of my sawing. After that I do sometimes use my 510 as a table saw.


.

[rpd]

Following this thread and looking at the pictures makes me wonder if any of you 10-ER guys run stabilizer washers on your saw blades?
I have a 10-ER but I've never actually gotten around to using it as a table saw. I use my Ridgid TS3650 for the bulk of my sawing. After that I do sometimes use my 510 as a table saw.


.

I haven't used stabilizers,

One thing to keep in mind is the washers on the stock arbor are recessed, and the max blade on the 10er is 8" .

[badtheba]

Not for saw blades!!! For other 5/8 stuff like buffing wheels and wire wheels etc. Only put saw blades on saw blade arbors the others are not suited for saw blades and can be dangerous if used that way.
Bill V

Can you please explain why the longer 5/8" arbors shouldn't be used for saw blades? When I got my 10ER a thin kerf saw blade was mounted in such an arbor, although mine had a keyway and tabbed lock washer. The 3/4" spacer was against the arbor, then the blade, then the 3/16 spacer outside of the blade, then washer, then nut. It doesn't seem like this would be any less safe than the arbor spacer setup in the Powermatic saw I normally use at the cabinet shop, which has no keyway or washer, and the rotation of the blade as always keeps the nut tightened. Considering these arbors would also be used for dado stacks with the 3/4" spacer removed, a 1/8" or thinner blade would seemingly go through the wood with much less resistance than a dado blade (not considering depth of cut).

Also, I know it's an old thread, but I'll contribute my find. I got 2 identical arbors with mine, one with a saw blade mounted, and one with a 1/2" thick grinding wheel mounted. The 5/8 portion is 1 5/8" long without being threaded all the way down. Every unused arbor that looks like mine show the second 3/16 spacer, so I assume they were misplaced long ago.

image0001.jpg (164.98 KiB) Viewed 12940 times

[everettdavis]

Not for saw blades!!! For other 5/8 stuff like buffing wheels and wire wheels etc. Only put saw blades on saw blade arbors the others are not suited for saw blades and can be dangerous if used that way.
Bill V

Can you please explain why the longer 5/8" arbors shouldn't be used for saw blades? When I got my 10ER a thin kerf saw blade was mounted in such an arbor, although mine had a keyway and tabbed lock washer. The 3/4" spacer was against the arbor, then the blade, then the 3/16 spacer outside of the blade, then washer, then nut. It doesn't seem like this would be any less safe than the arbor spacer setup in the Powermatic saw I normally use at the cabinet shop, which has no keyway or washer, and the rotation of the blade as always keeps the nut tightened. Considering these arbors would also be used for dado stacks with the 3/4" spacer removed, a 1/8" or thinner blade would seemingly go through the wood with much less resistance than a dado blade (not considering depth of cut).

Also, I know it's an old thread, but I'll contribute my find. I got 2 identical arbors with mine, one with a saw blade mounted, and one with a 1/2" thick grinding wheel mounted. The 5/8 portion is 1 5/8" long without being threaded all the way down. Every unused arbor that looks like mine show the second 3/16 spacer, so I assume they were misplaced long ago.

Consider all the other 10" saws that you have seen through the years. Most of the 10" Radial Arm Saws had thick machined washers (Blade Stabilizers) that mounted on either side of the blade to reduce the blade wobble. The diameter of the stabilizers could restrict the depth of cut the blade was capable of making as they reduced the effective cut to the point where stock actually began to touch the stabilizers.

When Shopsmith originally made their blades with the 1 1/4" Arbors they did so as a blade stabilization strategy. Third Party 10" blades more common in decades following prompted Shopsmith to introduce a 5/8" arbor to accommodate the breadth of 5/8" blades commercially available, with the added mass in the arbor to help stabilize those blades.

It isn't that you can't use the other arbors, but blade stabilization will be less unless you add some form of blade stabilization to either side of the blade on the arbor.

Now there are two Shopsmith versions of each size arbor, dealing primarily with the difference in the earlier smaller tables, vs the newer larger tables which changed the relative position of the saw insert.

Equally, if you are using a Mark VII or Mark 7 Power Pro, or have modified your motor to be reversible, the spinning shaft can serve to keep the nut tightened, or serve to loosen it due to the inertia if reversed.

Last thing you want is the nut spinning loose or even off during use. That is where the danger component applies most.

That's my understanding of it.

Everett

[JPG]

Not for saw blades!!! For other 5/8 stuff like buffing wheels and wire wheels etc. Only put saw blades on saw blade arbors the others are not suited for saw blades and can be dangerous if used that way.
Bill V

Can you please explain why the longer 5/8" arbors shouldn't be used for saw blades? When I got my 10ER a thin kerf saw blade was mounted in such an arbor, although mine had a keyway and tabbed lock washer. The 3/4" spacer was against the arbor, then the blade, then the 3/16 spacer outside of the blade, then washer, then nut. It doesn't seem like this would be any less safe than the arbor spacer setup in the Powermatic saw I normally use at the cabinet shop, which has no keyway or washer, and the rotation of the blade as always keeps the nut tightened. Considering these arbors would also be used for dado stacks with the 3/4" spacer removed, a 1/8" or thinner blade would seemingly go through the wood with much less resistance than a dado blade (not considering depth of cut).

Also, I know it's an old thread, but I'll contribute my find. I got 2 identical arbors with mine, one with a saw blade mounted, and one with a 1/2" thick grinding wheel mounted. The 5/8 portion is 1 5/8" long without being threaded all the way down. Every unused arbor that looks like mine show the second 3/16 spacer, so I assume they were misplaced long ago.

Consider all the other 10" saws that you have seen through the years. Most of the 10" Radial Arm Saws had thick machined washers (Blade Stabilizers) that mounted on either side of the blade to reduce the blade wobble.

When Shopsmith originally made their blades with the 1 1/4" Arbors they did so as a blade stabilization strategy. Third Party 10" blades more common in decades following prompted Shopsmith to introduce a 5/8" arbor to accommodate the breadth of 5/8" blades commercially available, with the added mass in the arbor to help stabilize those blades.

It isn't that you can't use the other arbors, but blade stabilization will be less unless you add some form of blade stabilization to either side of the blade on the arbor.

Now there are two Shopsmith versions of each size arbor, dealing primarily with the difference in the earlier smaller tables, vs the newer larger tables which changed the relative position of the saw insert.

Equally, if you are using a Mark VII or Mark 7 Power Pro, or have modified your motor to be reversible, the spinning shaft can serve to keep the nut tightened, or serve to loosen it due to the inertia if reversed.

Last thing you want is the nut spinning loose or even off during use. That is where the danger component applies most.

That's my understanding of it.

Everett

GOOD ANSWER!!!!!

[everettdavis]

Thank you James.

I just edited it to mention the stabilizers diameters tended to reduce the depth of cut possible with a 10" blade that employed them.

Everett

[badtheba]

Thank you James.

I just edited it to mention the stabilizers diameters tended to reduce the depth of cut possible with a 10" blade that employed them.

Everett

So on my 10ER with a max blade diameter of 8", and many of the dado sets being 6 inches, I'm fine using my existing arbors, even with thin kerf 8" blades?

I did buy 2 1/4" Craftsman radial arm saw spacers on eBay for less than $4/set for use with a grinding wheel, so I could use them for blades, but would have to be careful of interference with the table if I did.

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