Complete alignment

shydragon · Post by **shydragon** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:41 pm

Charlese, very nice post. It was very interesting to read.

Yesterday, I installed the miter 2000. With great care went through all the steps. It was moving smoothly, no side to side play. Ok, now for the test cut at 90 degrees. Made the cut, flipped one piece 180, pushed them together and I thought, Aw man, there is a gap. Just the day before, I went through a complete re-alignment. So, I checked the blade to the table with an engineer square. There was a gap, how can that be.

So after several attempts to re-align, I never could get rid of the daylight. Finally, I took the blade off, which by the way was the original blade that came with the SS. Checked it for flatness with a steel ruler. It wasn't flat. So, I mounted my Forest Woodworker II blade. Perfect. Made another cut, flipped one piece, and perfect joint. Then tried a 45 degree, and also perfect. I was so excited.

One problem I noticed, is the 90 degree stop bolt is just way to easy to turn. I can imagine it turning while the SS is running. Any suggestion on snugging it up a bit?

RobertTaylor · Post by **RobertTaylor** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:06 pm

a drop of the "blue" locktite thread sealer should do the job

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:58 pm

Hi Pat! Read your last post and have been thinking about it for the last 2 hours or so. Assuming that both blades created a straight line cut, but they were slanted (didn't mate perfectly) upon flipping one side over ----I just can't come up with a reason why the straight new Forrest Woodworker blade would make a more accurate 90 degree cut than an a bent old SS combo blade.

Really! I'm not kidding! If anyone can come up with an answer to that question, I would sure appreciate hearing it.

shydragon · Post by **shydragon** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:14 pm

Actually, it was probably me. I just couldn't get rid of the daylight after so many attempts. So, I just decided to try something else. I mean, it couldn't possibly be me, it had to be the equipment. lol

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:16 pm

charlese wrote:Hi Pat! Read your last post and have been thinking about it for the last 2 hours or so. Assuming that both blades created a straight line cut, but they were slanted (didn't mate perfectly) upon flipping one side over ----I just can't come up with a reason why the straight new Forrest Woodworker blade would make a more accurate 90 degree cut than an a bent old SS combo blade.

Really! I'm not kidding! If anyone can come up with an answer to that question, I would sure appreciate hearing it.

Hi Chuck,
Apparently, Chuck, you can knot shove the wood through as fast as Pat! He must be able to shove it through fast enough to get the board cut with one rotation of the blade. That could explain how Pat's SS blade, which is knot perfectly flat, made a cut like that, while his perfectly flat Forrest blade did knot! Now me, I can knot cut that fast, and, due to the many rotations of the blade, my kerf wood be wider with a non flat blade, but my cut wood still be straight.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:02 am

That's it Tim! Thanks! The old SS blade is dull and feeding through that dull blade caused the fence to deflect enough to cause the angle! At least that'll let me sleep tonight! Maybe there is a better idea for the cause. I don't understand Incra systems well enough to understand.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:16 pm

Today, in the shop, thought of another scenario where the two faces wouldn't meet after sawing. This is probably a better guess, given that Pat's machine was recently aligned and he was using his new Incra outfit, which is supposed to fit nicely into the miter slots.

If the edges of the cut board are not parallel to each other, a gap will occur after flipping over one of the cut sides. Or if the two edges are not straight.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:58 pm

charlese wrote:Today, in the shop, thought of another scenario where the two faces wouldn't meet after sawing. This is probably a better guess, given that Pat's machine was recently aligned and he was using his new Incra outfit, which is supposed to fit nicely into the miter slots.

If the edges of the cut board are not parallel to each other, a gap will occur after flipping over one of the cut sides. Or if the two edges are not straight.

Chuck
Where were you a couple of years ago. I had read of an alignment procedure were you make a cut flip the board and check for gaps. I nearly went crazy trying to adjust my saw until I finally gave up.

I then went back a few weeks later and tried again using another board. Surprize every thing was perfect. I just figured I had done something wrong. Then I read your post, like magic the light went on, the first board probably did not have parallel edges.

Always rip the board first to insure parallelism then use the this method.

My new motto, "I have set the SS up correctly I won't mess with it after I read of still another new way to check alignment. If the cut is crooked blame it on the operator."

Ed

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:00 pm

My new motto, "I have set the SS up correctly I won't mess with it after I read of still another new way to check alignment. If the cut is crooked blame it on the operator."

"That sounds just plain crazy."

For me, I always check my alignment before starting any new project. Never trust everything will remain square and aligned after every project. Lots of things can change alignment, even the weather. And with all the changes you make to a Shopsmith as you progress through a project, I don't trust it to go back to perfect alignment when I change it back.

Now, I don't spend an hour everytime I change the set-up. I have a pattern I follow and only takes a minute or two each time. I use the dial indicator which really helps speed up the process.

I think a minute or two checking alignment is worth the time due to the cost of wood now-a-days. It is very cost effective if you get into this type of routine.

I do this on all my tools, Shopsmith and all others that I own.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:54 pm

Woodburner perhaps I'm lucky or your unlucky but let me say I have never found my SS out of adjustment.

I first got my Shopsmith in the mid 80's it was a model 500 and I aligned it as detailed in the manual. I built many projects and everything went well. When the 510 upgrade came out I ordered and installed it and frankly I was put out so after setting up my SS I pretty much shoved it in the corner and there it sat. Used only for what I consider rough or construction wood working.

Then came a point in my life where I once again had time on my hands so I dragged out the SS and checked it and after 10+ years of getting shoved around in my shop, used for everything from storage shelf to lawn mower blade sharpener I checked my setup and it was in my opinion right on. I made a few more projects and everything went fine. One was a picture frame that required and my SS produced, in my opinion, perfect 45 degree miters. That to me is impressive for a machine that had everything from 8x8 timbers dropped on it and hog cut through by it, to a being used as a work table for a 16 hp engine rebuild.

Then about 2 or 3 years ago I upgraded to the 520 (far superior to the 510 in my opinion) again I aligned my SS using the SS original setup methods( using the hex wrench in the mitre guage to set the table and fence parallel to the blade. Using the sanding disk to the table to make sure the table was flat and perpendicular to the table. And a try square to set the spindle to the table.

At about that time I started reading the forum. Since then I have checked and rechecked my alignment each time someone has a new method. I have drilled my trunnions, I have used dial indicators, feeler guages, alignment jigs, and everything and I'm almost certain that all I accomplished was wasting time.

At this point I almost totally certain of two things. First my original setup has never changed. Which makes sense since the only way it could change is if something was loosened and moved or something got bent or failed.
The second thing I'm totally convince about is the original way SS instructed you to set up the machine produced the best results. I say that because using all these new methods I have never been able to improve on my original setup.

I have never noticed the weather and with the great swings in temperature I expose my machine to ( air conditioned to non air conditioned on a regular basis) to effect my Shopsmith in any way. I owuld think if metal was going to expand getting hot it would expand all over the machine and since everything is basically relevent to each other they would for the most part stay in the same relationship. If not please explain it to me.
Ed