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19 posts 1 2

Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264449 by ednspace » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:35 am

Hello,

Long story/saga so be warned ;)

I recently took ownership of a shopsmith model 500. It belonged to my Grandfather who unfortunately recently passed away at age 93. As far as I can tell he bought the machine new in 1985. If you can believe this he never used it. I am pretty sure it was never plugged in. The little cardboard cover was still on the power plug and the original zip ties were still in place. It sat covered in a conditioned basement for all that time. The machine is basically in excellent condition very little visible rust etc but I have been working on the headstock for days. I have all the pieces, parts, manuals, books etc... Many still in the original packaging.

After I got it home I inspected everything carefully as I was reassembling. I went through the initial setup in the manual. Rewaxed everything and was careful as I went... Trying to work like my grandad and respect this dream that he had and passed on to me.

As I was working on putting it back together I was reading and researching online. Before plugging it in I found the motor drive sheave stuck. I ended up disassembling and cleaning a thin layer of rust re oiling etc... That friggen spring is UNDER SOME TENSION noobies be warned.

After that was all back together and the rest of the head stock was oiled and the speed control all seemed to be working by hand I cut the virgin zip ties on powered cord, crossed my fingers and flipped the power switch.

There was quite a bit of vibration, pretty loud too. After two or three attempts at convincing myself it wasn't going to just explode I made it up to high speed and all the way back down a couple of times - SLOWLY.

At this point the idler shaft was so hot I could not leave my finger on it. I took this as a sign ;) And decided to take the belts off so I could feel the bearings individually.

So eventually I got the belts off GAWD!!!

Everything felt smooth and silky except the idler which was gummy sticky. After realizing I could not remove it (water cooler style) I tried to oil it but then after seeing cutaways realized I probably just washed all the grease into the middle of the bearing sleeve.

By this time I had watched all of Jacob Anderson's videos ;)
I bit the bullet and ordered a new idler shaft plus a poly V belt and the drive belt, all good.

Now I have been putting it back together. First time went pretty well but after testing it was still pretty noisy and had vibration. I was not convinced I had the poly V in the right place so tried several groove locations without much luck. Eventually I found a reassembly document that showed the different locations for removable access cover emblem vs sliding access cover emblem. I am pretty sure I have that position correct now, right in the middle, where I started ;)

In the process of trying to get the poly V correct I had to take the eccentric bushing out several times which meant the set screw came in and out several times. Finally I got it to a place where I convinced myself it sounded better though not purring by any standpoint. After running for short test I noticed the idler bearing was sticking out past the eccentric.

So... to make a long story longer last night I made a finally stab. This time I inspected the set screw very closely and noticed the tip was all mangled. I now know this should just be finger tight and am not sure when the tip got damaged along this journey but I tried to file a little point to engage the groove on the idler bearing. In the process the tip just fell out. Like it was crimped in or other, not sure but I have a hole now through the setscrew - odd...

I put it back together but of course the set screw won't grab the groove in the idler shaft any more and I am not about to crank it down and distort my new bearing. So, I installed an oversized washer which seems to hold the eccentric and idler shaft but I don't trust it.

Hours of research last night revealed that this set screw for my older style non split eccentric is a 5/16" - 18 1/4" cone point. Bill on the forum suggest using a knurled Cup Point set screw instead for reasons that make sense. I am now trying to locate a replacement screw but still have questions.

Why oh why am getting this vibrational noise. Most of it seems to be coming from the big V belt associated with the sheaves and the motor. You can actually see it vibrating sort of jumping a little. There was quite a bit of aluminum crust/corrosion on the sheaves when I took them apart and cleaned and oiled. I got it all off with a brass brush and some 400 grit sandpaper. They are pretty smooth now on the running surface but its like the belt is sort of grabbing. The new drive belt that I got from Jacob Anderson seems fatter too. Maybe too fat??

I would love to try and run the machine without the poly V but I have to take the upper drive bearings back out to do that = PAIN.

When the groove in the middle of the idler shaft bearing is dead in the center of the set screw hole in the eccentric, the edge of the idler extends past the edge of the eccentric by a small amount. Is this correct? Everyone seems to be saying to make these two flush.

When in slow how far out on the upper sheave should the belt come? Mine is extending past the edge of the sheave when I hit slow. (Speed control was borked trying to get the upper sheave out. Totally disengaged the worm gear and now have been trying to adjust that as well by rotating the dial with its set screw.)

Any clues where to get a replacement sets crew for the eccentric?

Should the lock washer on the allen bolt that applies pressure on the casting for the eccentric be placed under the square nut or on the drive side of the bolt?

Anyone have a video link for one of these Mark V's running sweetly. Maybe I am overthinking all this but the way it sounds is intimidating, not reassuring at all but I have no reference point.

Thanks all for reading and listening to my story. I hope I have not screwed anything up too badly at this point. I am kind of discouraged but hope to still get this running well. I have lots of plans for it if I can get it resurrected.

Good news is I know a LOT more about the way this machine works and is adjusted, however, it is an education I was not planning on at the moment.

thank you all for your time and interest,
Eric

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264453 by garys » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:58 am

I guess your luck isn't as good as mine. A couple of years ago I bought a 1984 model Shopsmith that had been sitting for years. The original owner lived in California and the machine looked like it didn't have much use. When he died, his son-in-law in North Dakota inherited it. The second owner never used it at all. I took it home, plugged it in and tried it out. It ran great and didn't have any issues. I gave it to my Son, and since then, it sits in his shop and now it is getting used. It didn't require any work to use.

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264454 by ednspace » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:02 pm

Sounds like a great find! I think this one will end up being ok. Maybe it just needs some time to get everything going again. If I can get past my current set screw issues I plan to move on and start using it. See what presents itself ;)

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264456 by everettdavis » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:53 pm

Great story. Good research and diagnostic techniques

I would believe that at least some of your vibration is from belt set that has hardened the tensioned areas around pulleys and sheaves sitting that long.

Even though not worn I would replace both belts.

With regard to bearings sitting so long with grease hardening and congealed I have removed them, wrapped them in tin foil and set them on top of a 75W light bulb to warm them before I evaluate them.

Worn is worn. Yours were new. Many used units have minimal use and once the grease is warm it will redistribute and restore smooth operation.

If grease was off the bearing surfaces for many years and moisture got in, sections could rust and make replacement necessary.

You do honor your grandfather with your diligence and respect for the machine.

Post photos if you get a chance and keep us informed of your progress.

Welcome to the family here!

Respectfully,

Everett L. Davis

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264457 by ednspace » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:37 pm

Thanks so much for the warm welcome and helpful advice.

That's a great trick on warming the bearings that I may use in the future.
At this point I have indeed replaced both belts as well as the idler shaft. I too was worried that they may have hard spots after sitting for so long under tension.

thanks again for your response,
Eric

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264458 by reible » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:20 pm

First welcome to the forum!

There are manuals for doing the belt changes and setting the speed and for a lot of the other repairs. Shopsmith use to supply them when you purchased repair items from them, don't know if that is still the case. They are a good idea for getting through some of the repair operations. Things like getting the spring off without hurting yourself or damaging things.

Things like doing the high speed adjustment are all described in pretty good detail. Like wise the tension needed for the belts. To much tension will heat thing up pretty fast, and a good source of potential excessive noise.

I'd say you might want to get the manuals and then go back over what you have done to make sure things are back together and adjusted as they should be.

Vibration can happen from a lot of different things. If the belt is hoping around in the sheaves something there is still not right. Either the surfaces are not smooth enough or they are not sliding smooth enough. I'd say that is a good place to start looking for the problem.

If you don't mind adding some location information there might be a member who is near by that could help.

Ed

---

{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264460 by ednspace » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:32 pm

Thanks for the reply Ed,

I agree on the sheaves being the place to look. Its my next move after I get the set screw correct. I may even go back to the original shopsmith belt just to see if I can hear a difference.

I also plan on doing the high speed adjustment once I get everything straightened out. I'll see if I can locate the manuals. I have the one for the Poly V changing and tensioning and it was very helpful...

I added my location information to my profile, Micaville North Carolina.

thanks again,
Eric

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264461 by JPG » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:00 pm

ednspace wrote:Thanks for the reply Ed,

I agree on the sheaves being the place to look. Its my next move after I get the set screw correct. I may even go back to the original shopsmith belt just to see if I can hear a difference.

I also plan on doing the high speed adjustment once I get everything straightened out. I'll see if I can locate the manuals. I have the one for the Poly V changing and tensioning and it was very helpful...

I added my location information to my profile, Micaville North Carolina.


thanks again,
Eric


It did not 'take'.

There should be two grooves empty on the quill end of the drive sleeve pulley,

A cone point set screw is needed. Do NOT over tighten it. The set screw positions the bearing groove in the eccentric. The retaining screw positions the eccentric in the headstock casting. Wider washer not needed!!! This assumes the original non split eccentric etc..

Some pix might help us.


P.S. the headstock IS noisy when running.

---

╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264467 by br549 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:10 am

Let me add my welcome too!

Your detailed explanation and homework in researching potential problems is indeed refreshing.

For your location, there may be more than field labeled "Location" where you edit your profile. I learned when I added mine that one of those fields "takes" and the other one doesn't.

As far as hearing another machine run, the Sawdust Sessions are currently unavailable (hopefully only temporarily), but these might be a good place to hear what a well-maintained machine should sound like when running.

My machine is slightly older than yours, and could probably use a little oiling, but I can invite you to see a Dropbox file where you should be able to see and hear mine. I ran it up to fast and then back down to slow twice, with belt cover on and then off.

If you want to send a Private Message (PM) with your email address, I can share the video with you. I don't have a YouTube account, and am new at sharing Dropbox files. If there is a way to create a link where anyone can view it, I haven't found it.

Or maybe I have. Let's see if this works:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqiro6j9ikqly ... g.mp4?dl=0

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Re: Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

#264468 by wa2crk » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:21 am

Have you checked the bearing in the end of the control sheave? I repaired a headstock for a friend of mine in which the bearing had turned blue and fallen apart. I asked him when he last oiled the machine and said "you have to oil them?". That bearing will fail if it does not get oiled. On his machine the bearing had fallen apart and the end of the sheave was flopping around causing a hellish noise and vibration.
Bill V

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