Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:35 am
Hello,
Long story/saga so be warned
I recently took ownership of a shopsmith model 500. It belonged to my Grandfather who unfortunately recently passed away at age 93. As far as I can tell he bought the machine new in 1985. If you can believe this he never used it. I am pretty sure it was never plugged in. The little cardboard cover was still on the power plug and the original zip ties were still in place. It sat covered in a conditioned basement for all that time. The machine is basically in excellent condition very little visible rust etc but I have been working on the headstock for days. I have all the pieces, parts, manuals, books etc... Many still in the original packaging.
After I got it home I inspected everything carefully as I was reassembling. I went through the initial setup in the manual. Rewaxed everything and was careful as I went... Trying to work like my grandad and respect this dream that he had and passed on to me.
As I was working on putting it back together I was reading and researching online. Before plugging it in I found the motor drive sheave stuck. I ended up disassembling and cleaning a thin layer of rust re oiling etc... That friggen spring is UNDER SOME TENSION noobies be warned.
After that was all back together and the rest of the head stock was oiled and the speed control all seemed to be working by hand I cut the virgin zip ties on powered cord, crossed my fingers and flipped the power switch.
There was quite a bit of vibration, pretty loud too. After two or three attempts at convincing myself it wasn't going to just explode I made it up to high speed and all the way back down a couple of times - SLOWLY.
At this point the idler shaft was so hot I could not leave my finger on it. I took this as a sign And decided to take the belts off so I could feel the bearings individually.
So eventually I got the belts off GAWD!!!
Everything felt smooth and silky except the idler which was gummy sticky. After realizing I could not remove it (water cooler style) I tried to oil it but then after seeing cutaways realized I probably just washed all the grease into the middle of the bearing sleeve.
By this time I had watched all of Jacob Anderson's videos
I bit the bullet and ordered a new idler shaft plus a poly V belt and the drive belt, all good.
Now I have been putting it back together. First time went pretty well but after testing it was still pretty noisy and had vibration. I was not convinced I had the poly V in the right place so tried several groove locations without much luck. Eventually I found a reassembly document that showed the different locations for removable access cover emblem vs sliding access cover emblem. I am pretty sure I have that position correct now, right in the middle, where I started
In the process of trying to get the poly V correct I had to take the eccentric bushing out several times which meant the set screw came in and out several times. Finally I got it to a place where I convinced myself it sounded better though not purring by any standpoint. After running for short test I noticed the idler bearing was sticking out past the eccentric.
So... to make a long story longer last night I made a finally stab. This time I inspected the set screw very closely and noticed the tip was all mangled. I now know this should just be finger tight and am not sure when the tip got damaged along this journey but I tried to file a little point to engage the groove on the idler bearing. In the process the tip just fell out. Like it was crimped in or other, not sure but I have a hole now through the setscrew - odd...
I put it back together but of course the set screw won't grab the groove in the idler shaft any more and I am not about to crank it down and distort my new bearing. So, I installed an oversized washer which seems to hold the eccentric and idler shaft but I don't trust it.
Hours of research last night revealed that this set screw for my older style non split eccentric is a 5/16" - 18 1/4" cone point. Bill on the forum suggest using a knurled Cup Point set screw instead for reasons that make sense. I am now trying to locate a replacement screw but still have questions.
Why oh why am getting this vibrational noise. Most of it seems to be coming from the big V belt associated with the sheaves and the motor. You can actually see it vibrating sort of jumping a little. There was quite a bit of aluminum crust/corrosion on the sheaves when I took them apart and cleaned and oiled. I got it all off with a brass brush and some 400 grit sandpaper. They are pretty smooth now on the running surface but its like the belt is sort of grabbing. The new drive belt that I got from Jacob Anderson seems fatter too. Maybe too fat??
I would love to try and run the machine without the poly V but I have to take the upper drive bearings back out to do that = PAIN.
When the groove in the middle of the idler shaft bearing is dead in the center of the set screw hole in the eccentric, the edge of the idler extends past the edge of the eccentric by a small amount. Is this correct? Everyone seems to be saying to make these two flush.
When in slow how far out on the upper sheave should the belt come? Mine is extending past the edge of the sheave when I hit slow. (Speed control was borked trying to get the upper sheave out. Totally disengaged the worm gear and now have been trying to adjust that as well by rotating the dial with its set screw.)
Any clues where to get a replacement sets crew for the eccentric?
Should the lock washer on the allen bolt that applies pressure on the casting for the eccentric be placed under the square nut or on the drive side of the bolt?
Anyone have a video link for one of these Mark V's running sweetly. Maybe I am overthinking all this but the way it sounds is intimidating, not reassuring at all but I have no reference point.
Thanks all for reading and listening to my story. I hope I have not screwed anything up too badly at this point. I am kind of discouraged but hope to still get this running well. I have lots of plans for it if I can get it resurrected.
Good news is I know a LOT more about the way this machine works and is adjusted, however, it is an education I was not planning on at the moment.
thank you all for your time and interest,
Eric
Long story/saga so be warned
I recently took ownership of a shopsmith model 500. It belonged to my Grandfather who unfortunately recently passed away at age 93. As far as I can tell he bought the machine new in 1985. If you can believe this he never used it. I am pretty sure it was never plugged in. The little cardboard cover was still on the power plug and the original zip ties were still in place. It sat covered in a conditioned basement for all that time. The machine is basically in excellent condition very little visible rust etc but I have been working on the headstock for days. I have all the pieces, parts, manuals, books etc... Many still in the original packaging.
After I got it home I inspected everything carefully as I was reassembling. I went through the initial setup in the manual. Rewaxed everything and was careful as I went... Trying to work like my grandad and respect this dream that he had and passed on to me.
As I was working on putting it back together I was reading and researching online. Before plugging it in I found the motor drive sheave stuck. I ended up disassembling and cleaning a thin layer of rust re oiling etc... That friggen spring is UNDER SOME TENSION noobies be warned.
After that was all back together and the rest of the head stock was oiled and the speed control all seemed to be working by hand I cut the virgin zip ties on powered cord, crossed my fingers and flipped the power switch.
There was quite a bit of vibration, pretty loud too. After two or three attempts at convincing myself it wasn't going to just explode I made it up to high speed and all the way back down a couple of times - SLOWLY.
At this point the idler shaft was so hot I could not leave my finger on it. I took this as a sign And decided to take the belts off so I could feel the bearings individually.
So eventually I got the belts off GAWD!!!
Everything felt smooth and silky except the idler which was gummy sticky. After realizing I could not remove it (water cooler style) I tried to oil it but then after seeing cutaways realized I probably just washed all the grease into the middle of the bearing sleeve.
By this time I had watched all of Jacob Anderson's videos
I bit the bullet and ordered a new idler shaft plus a poly V belt and the drive belt, all good.
Now I have been putting it back together. First time went pretty well but after testing it was still pretty noisy and had vibration. I was not convinced I had the poly V in the right place so tried several groove locations without much luck. Eventually I found a reassembly document that showed the different locations for removable access cover emblem vs sliding access cover emblem. I am pretty sure I have that position correct now, right in the middle, where I started
In the process of trying to get the poly V correct I had to take the eccentric bushing out several times which meant the set screw came in and out several times. Finally I got it to a place where I convinced myself it sounded better though not purring by any standpoint. After running for short test I noticed the idler bearing was sticking out past the eccentric.
So... to make a long story longer last night I made a finally stab. This time I inspected the set screw very closely and noticed the tip was all mangled. I now know this should just be finger tight and am not sure when the tip got damaged along this journey but I tried to file a little point to engage the groove on the idler bearing. In the process the tip just fell out. Like it was crimped in or other, not sure but I have a hole now through the setscrew - odd...
I put it back together but of course the set screw won't grab the groove in the idler shaft any more and I am not about to crank it down and distort my new bearing. So, I installed an oversized washer which seems to hold the eccentric and idler shaft but I don't trust it.
Hours of research last night revealed that this set screw for my older style non split eccentric is a 5/16" - 18 1/4" cone point. Bill on the forum suggest using a knurled Cup Point set screw instead for reasons that make sense. I am now trying to locate a replacement screw but still have questions.
Why oh why am getting this vibrational noise. Most of it seems to be coming from the big V belt associated with the sheaves and the motor. You can actually see it vibrating sort of jumping a little. There was quite a bit of aluminum crust/corrosion on the sheaves when I took them apart and cleaned and oiled. I got it all off with a brass brush and some 400 grit sandpaper. They are pretty smooth now on the running surface but its like the belt is sort of grabbing. The new drive belt that I got from Jacob Anderson seems fatter too. Maybe too fat??
I would love to try and run the machine without the poly V but I have to take the upper drive bearings back out to do that = PAIN.
When the groove in the middle of the idler shaft bearing is dead in the center of the set screw hole in the eccentric, the edge of the idler extends past the edge of the eccentric by a small amount. Is this correct? Everyone seems to be saying to make these two flush.
When in slow how far out on the upper sheave should the belt come? Mine is extending past the edge of the sheave when I hit slow. (Speed control was borked trying to get the upper sheave out. Totally disengaged the worm gear and now have been trying to adjust that as well by rotating the dial with its set screw.)
Any clues where to get a replacement sets crew for the eccentric?
Should the lock washer on the allen bolt that applies pressure on the casting for the eccentric be placed under the square nut or on the drive side of the bolt?
Anyone have a video link for one of these Mark V's running sweetly. Maybe I am overthinking all this but the way it sounds is intimidating, not reassuring at all but I have no reference point.
Thanks all for reading and listening to my story. I hope I have not screwed anything up too badly at this point. I am kind of discouraged but hope to still get this running well. I have lots of plans for it if I can get it resurrected.
Good news is I know a LOT more about the way this machine works and is adjusted, however, it is an education I was not planning on at the moment.
thank you all for your time and interest,
Eric