Inherited ShopSmith With Noise Issue

[ednspace]

The rubber dust is interesting. You said that you worked on the sheaves where the belt rides. Are the edges of the contact surface of the sheaves sharp? You may want to take the sharp edges off them so the belt doesn't wear prematurely. Also check for a slightly bent sheave. You may have to turn the spindle by hand while watching the edge of the sheave to see any movement. Is the floating sheave on the motor moving smoothly. I have found that the motor shaft and the control sheave shaft should be polished as smooth as possible to provide easy movement. Also when you tighten the bolt under the eccentric, only enough to flatten the lock washer. Over tightening the bolt can crack one of the wings off the casting. DISASTER!!!
Bill V

Ok yeah, I need to look at this. It may be the cause. I may have damaged the motor sheave trying to get it unstuck. I was using a rubber mallet. I hope not because that means I have to take that spring off again It would explain the the sort of low pitch vibrational noise and it would also make sense that I heard it from the beggining. I worked on freeing that sheave before I ever applied power to the machine. I spent a long time on the motor sheave polishing it smooth, the control shaft was in better shape to begin with but I did them both. The sheaves glide back and forth.

I am suspecting the outer motor sheave might be bent. That's the next place I am looking. I could take the belt off and see that easy enough...

Also being careful with the eccentric bolt but I am so nervous now around all of these pieces. Don't squish the bearing, don't crack the casting - eeek.

Thank You

[ednspace]

In the second image (showing the bearing, washer and screw), the bearing is protruding further than it should. The washer is intended to prevent the bearing from doing what you see there. The idler shaft needs to be relocated.

Reference my earlier post.

That is NOT normal.

Perform a high speed adjustment. I suspect the control sheave is hitting the speed control leg. Or thje control sheave is missung the bearing.clip etc..

A pix of the interior will help.

Yes thank you both for the input,
I agree the idler is not positioned correctly - nor the eccentric. I think when I get the set screw I will... Make the eccentric face flush with the original washer. The cone point set screw should hold the idler bearing and shaft in the exact right position with in the eccentric.

[ednspace]

Ok...
Had a little time today to shoot a video of my machine running.
I tried to use the same format as br549.
It gets pretty loud near the high speed end. It's really kind of nerve racking.
I will try and share this video via a DropBox link also...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/24t9dy16vpgqw ... k.mp4?dl=0

To me, your Shopsmith sounds fine at low RPM. However at high RPM, I have never heard anything like it. Sounds like the roar of a race car coming out of a tunnel. Hopefully one of the experts here on the forum will have some suggestions for it. After listening to your video, I can understand your concern...although it sounds really cool! Perhaps time to put racing stripes on it and some racing wheels! Wishing you the best on diagnosing it.

Yah! I agree. Thanks for the feedback, it's pretty scary when I get it up there. I didn't even go all the way in the video. Something is surely not right with this. I really need to sort out the bearing, setscrew, eccentric issue before going much further with the troubleshooting. If the belts are not aligned correctly that would explain some of the noise. Also I will follow JPGs instructions on doing a high speed calibration. I am pretty sure the bearing and clip etc or in good order at the end of the control sheave. Hitting the high speed arm though - not sure, will check.

In the meantime I will check the sheaves and see if they are bent, if so I can try and get one on order.

I REALLY APPRECIATE all the time and effort you all have put into helping me solve my problem! THANK YOU! It will be great to see this guy up and running again.

[everettdavis]

If you have not carefully read the Headstock Improvement Kit document by our late friend and mentor Bill Mayo, I would highly recommend studying it.

It is a file that is posted on the page where the link to My Google Drive appears. It's on the first post of Shopsmith Large Format Drawings Illustrations and More.

It discusses and illustrates the speed control mechanism and the eccentric as well as over tensioning the ears and how to prevent it from breaking.

Everett

[rpd]

OK yeah, I need to look at this. It may be the cause. I may have damaged the motor sheave trying to get it unstuck. I was using a rubber mallet.
I hope not because that means I have to take that spring off again It would explain the the sort of low pitch vibrational noise and it would also make sense that I heard it from the beginning. I worked on freeing that sheave before I ever applied power to the machine. I spent a long time on the motor sheave polishing it smooth, the control shaft was in better shape to begin with but I did them both. The sheaves glide back and forth.

I am suspecting the outer motor sheave might be bent. That's the next place I am looking. I could take the belt off and see that easy enough...

Also being careful with the eccentric bolt but I am so nervous now around all of these pieces. Don't squish the bearing, don't crack the casting - eeek.

Thank You

This could help with removing the spring.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HoUwYug-6k[/youtube]

[JPG]

The rubber dust is interesting. You said that you worked on the sheaves where the belt rides. Are the edges of the contact surface of the sheaves sharp? You may want to take the sharp edges off them so the belt doesn't wear prematurely. Also check for a slightly bent sheave. You may have to turn the spindle by hand while watching the edge of the sheave to see any movement. Is the floating sheave on the motor moving smoothly. I have found that the motor shaft and the control sheave shaft should be polished as smooth as possible to provide easy movement. Also when you tighten the bolt under the eccentric, only enough to flatten the lock washer. Over tightening the bolt can crack one of the wings off the casting. DISASTER!!!
Bill V

Ok yeah, I need to look at this. It may be the cause. I may have damaged the motor sheave trying to get it unstuck. I was using a rubber mallet. I hope not because that means I have to take that spring off again It would explain the the sort of low pitch vibrational noise and it would also make sense that I heard it from the beggining. I worked on freeing that sheave before I ever applied power to the machine. I spent a long time on the motor sheave polishing it smooth, the control shaft was in better shape to begin with but I did them both. The sheaves glide back and forth.

I am suspecting the outer motor sheave might be bent. That's the next place I am looking. I could take the belt off and see that easy enough...

Also being careful with the eccentric bolt but I am so nervous now around all of these pieces. Don't squish the bearing, don't crack the casting - eeek.

Thank You

Just remember thee are not a gorilla.

[br549]

Eric (ednspace):

I am happy to see that the Sawdust Sessions and Video Tips (under Woodworking Resources) are now back up and available.

In addition to all of the other great sources of information out there, these may be helpful as you work to determine how to get your machine back in peak condition.

There are numerous videos on maintenance issues, but here is link to one that may a good starting point for your present situation: Rebuilding the drive train. This and several of the other videos will also let you hear the amount and type of noise that should be expected.

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt3.htm

Your video also raised the bar (at least for me) ... next time I will have to take the time to set up the tripod.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

[ednspace]

Eric (ednspace):

I am happy to see that the Sawdust Sessions and Video Tips (under Woodworking Resources) are now back up and available.

In addition to all of the other great sources of information out there, these may be helpful as you work to determine how to get your machine back in peak condition.

There are numerous videos on maintenance issues, but here is link to one that may a good starting point for your present situation: Rebuilding the drive train. This and several of the other videos will also let you hear the amount and type of noise that should be expected.

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt3.htm

Your video also raised the bar (at least for me) ... next time I will have to take the time to set up the tripod.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Hey! Cool!
Glad they are back up. I will check those out for sure.

Thanks for the kind words on the video. You were the inspiration! Never thought of sharing via dropbox either, very easy to do.

I hope I can post another soon of it running quietly and maybe even my first project.

Source for the cone point dried up, found another place online to try next. I need to check the motor floating sheave first though as if its bent I may be able to get the set screw from the Mothership when I order that...

thanks again,
Eric

[ednspace]

Just an update,

Yesterday I made a careful inspection of the motor sheaves. It seems that I must have damaged the floating sheave when I was trying to free it up and get it sliding on the motor shaft. There is for sure a visible dent on the outer rim which I attribute to over zealous blows with a not so soft and small diameter rubber mallet.

So... Lesson learned. I damaged this right off the top, before I ever turned the machine on and makes sense because I heard the noise from the beginning. Initially I attributed this to belt and possible bearing noise which is what got me down the path of disassembling the front end of the headstock. It also makes sense that the noise is rhythmic and gets worse the further out on the sheave the belt moves as I increase speed.

I do think the idler bearing may have had a problem but possibly I am just comforting myself I know new belts can't hurt and oh yeah 'The Education" I have gotten about how the internals of the shopsmith work are priceless.

I built up the spring removal tool as outlined in Jacob Anderson's video suggested by Ron earlier in this thread and was able to safely (this time) remove the spring and inspect the motor sheave. You can feel the dent as well as see it when turning the sheave slowly.

I ordered a new one plus the setscrew from shopsmith direct this AM
Part Numbers for those playing along are...
139367 Setscrew (crossing fingers this is cone point from diagram in my manual)
504208 Floating Sheave

Hopefully this fixes me up and gets everything moving again. I am fairly embarrassed that it appears I caused the damage myself right from the start. Hmmm, but the education as I mentioned earlier...

Thanks to all of you for helping me!!!
I'll let you know how it sounds when I get the new parts installed,
Eric

[ednspace]

Just wanted to get back to the group with an update.

At long last I have the ShopSmith back up and running again!!!

I replaced the bent motor sheave and also got a new cone point allen screw in the eccentric holding tightly the groove in the idler shaft pulley. Tight but not too tight
I also performed the high speed adjustment and think I have things like they should be this time.

It's still a little louder then I would like and I can hear a pop pop pop from what must be a bearing when the motor spins down but... I am wearing hearing protection as I do with all my tools and with those on it sounds pretty good

Seriously, I am resolved to not take it apart again. I am going to use it for a while and let everything kind of work its way in. Let the belts seat and let the bearings work for a little bit etc. If there is a further problem I am sure it will present itself. For now idler seems to be staying put, not getting too hot and there is not the high speed rhythmic racket that was present with the bent sheave.

Over the last several days I moved a bunch of stuff around and cleared out some quality space in the middle of my shop to set up the ShopSmith and give myself room to work with it.

I have checked alignment and carefully made some of my first rip cuts and cross cuts on the table saw. To say I am stoked is an understatement. First project was to rip some 4 inch shelf supports to rebuild this old dilapidated shelf that has been looking SORRY in my shop for a long time.

Thanks to all of you that helped me out with noise problems. Thanks for all the wonderful content here on the forum and the time you spent helping me I now have a working ShopSmith again.

Many Thanks!!!
Eric

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