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Bandsaw Bearings

#15510 by ldh » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:55 am

Not long ago I did a upgrade on my SS bandsaw with the addition of the Kreg fence and the Carter Guide Bearings. Both were an improvement over the standard fence and steel guides, then I looked at the Auto-Trak and Back-Up bearings and decided to try and improve on the set-up. I have greatly reduced the blade wander with the addition of the extra bearings. I have posted the pics to see if there is any interest in this subject.

ldh

Attachments

UpperBearings.JPG
UpperBearings.JPG (47.42 KiB) Viewed 25190 times
LowerBearings.JPG
LowerBearings.JPG (111.98 KiB) Viewed 25093 times
GuideBearings.JPG
GuideBearings.JPG (70.53 KiB) Viewed 25087 times

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#15512 by paulmcohen » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:40 am

I did the Kreg fence and the Carter Guide Bearings upgrades and love the results. I just compared what I have to your pictures, it looks like you replaced one wide bearing with two narrow bearings is that correct?

---

Paul Cohen
Beaverton, OR
A 1982 500 Shopsmith brand upgraded to a Mark 7 PowerPro, Jointer, Bandsaw (with Kreg fence), Strip Sander, Ring Master and lots of accessories all purchased new
12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw, 1200 CFM DC

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#15513 by charlese » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:45 am

Nice looking bearings and clean saw! :) I have thought seriously about the added bearings, but then reasoned, for my use, since I usually cut on the outside of lines, don't really need them. They may be real nice for re-sawing, but have to thickness plane anyway.

---

Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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#15528 by ldh » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:52 am

paulmcohen wrote:I did the Kreg fence and the Carter Guide Bearings upgrades and love the results. I just compared what I have to your pictures, it looks like you replaced one wide bearing with two narrow bearings is that correct?


Yes Paul, I replaced the Auto-Trak, Upper Backup and Lower Backup bearings with 8mm x 22mm x 7mm premium C3 bearings. I simply took the Auto-Trak idea to the Backup bearings. Using the double bearing with the groove benefits all type of sawing and unlike the Carter Stabilizer the double bearing set-up can be used with all blades. I have found using the double bearing back-up that blade lead or drift has been greatly reduced. I enjoy my Shopsmith equipment and am always looking for ways to get a little more out of each piece. Have the urethane caster wheels improved the ease of movement of your MK V? I know you went through quite a struggle to get them installed. I will see how much interest is generated by the bearing photos before posting all of the component parts for the conversion. No use in wasting the forum time if no one is interested.
ldh

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#15529 by Ed in Tampa » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:57 am

ldh wrote:Not long ago I did a upgrade on my SS bandsaw with the addition of the Kreg fence and the Carter Guide Bearings. Both were an improvement over the standard fence and steel guides, then I looked at the Auto-Trak and Back-Up bearings and decided to try and improve on the set-up. I have greatly reduced the blade wander with the addition of the extra bearings. I have posted the pics to see if there is any interest in this subject.

ldh


IDH
Nice looking setup. Help me understand what your really gained. I thought blade wander was fault of the blade not the fault of the guide blocks.

I evidently do not understand all this blade wander cause and effect. I see everyone including Shopsmith selling all kinds of things to compensate for blade wander and I'm a little lost.

All know is I went to a TA years and years ago where they taught bandsaw setup. they taught us to do the setup so there was no blade wander. I remember them locking the old style mitre gauge in the cast iron table slots and thickness cutting a three inch wide board, cutting off a thickness that light could be seen through. They told us there was absolutely no need for blade wander compensation needed on the Shopsmith bandsaw.

I came home for the TA setup my bandsaw as they showed me and I have never fretted over blade wander. I would like my cuts to be smoother (read no need to sand) but short of that I don't have a problem that I know of.

Again I say this because probably more out of ignorance that wisdom since I don't use the bandsaw all that often.
That is why I'm asking you what you really gained.
Ed

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#15536 by ldh » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:59 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:IDH
Nice looking setup. Help me understand what your really gained. I thought blade wander was fault of the blade not the fault of the guide blocks.

I evidently do not understand all this blade wander cause and effect. I see everyone including Shopsmith selling all kinds of things to compensate for blade wander and I'm a little lost.

All know is I went to a TA years and years ago where they taught bandsaw setup. they taught us to do the setup so there was no blade wander. I remember them locking the old style mitre gauge in the cast iron table slots and thickness cutting a three inch wide board, cutting off a thickness that light could be seen through. They told us there was absolutely no need for blade wander compensation needed on the Shopsmith bandsaw.

I came home for the TA setup my bandsaw as they showed me and I have never fretted over blade wander. I would like my cuts to be smoother (read no need to sand) but short of that I don't have a problem that I know of.

Again I say this because probably more out of ignorance that wisdom since I don't use the bandsaw all that often.
That is why I'm asking you what you really gained.
Ed


I guess it's like skinning cats Ed, there is always a better way. Notice how happily all blades run in exactly the same place on the upper and lower wheel of the saw, in part as a result of the groove created by using two bearings in the Auto-Trak set-up. My reasoning was to take that idea to the back-up bearings. Lead in a bandsaw blade can never be completely eliminated, only reduced to an acceptable level by various techniques, you have stated some of them in your quote. The groove in the double bearing back-up helps in that respect. Anytime you can increase the support on the bandsaw blade above and below the cut and get it to run in the same spot on the back-up bearing you will get better control of the blade and the cut quality will increase. I am using a C3 bearing and they are all the same 8x22x7 costing me about $1.75 each. Not being an engineer I approach things from an imperial point of view, if it works it works and this change does, much like the first urethane caster wheels I made for my SS from my kids scooter wheels. I am sure that we will get the thoughts of others on this subject so hopefully we will all learn a new way to skin the cat.
Larry

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#15538 by paulmcohen » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:02 pm

ldh wrote:Yes Paul, I replaced the Auto-Trak, Upper Backup and Lower Backup bearings with 8mm x 22mm x 7mm premium C3 bearings. I simply took the Auto-Trak idea to the Backup bearings. Using the double bearing with the groove benefits all type of sawing and unlike the Carter Stabilizer the double bearing set-up can be used with all blades. I have found using the double bearing back-up that blade lead or drift has been greatly reduced. I enjoy my Shopsmith equipment and am always looking for ways to get a little more out of each piece. Have the urethane caster wheels improved the ease of movement of your MK V? I know you went through quite a struggle to get them installed. I will see how much interest is generated by the bearing photos before posting all of the component parts for the conversion. No use in wasting the forum time if no one is interested.
ldh


It rolls like a hot knife through soft butter, and even ignores small bumps in the floor. Since installing the Carter Bearings (not Stabilizer though I have it also) and putting on a new premium blade I don't get noticeable drift. Before the changes drift was so large I could not correct for it by changing fence alignment. I am interest though I might not get to doing it. Usually my biggest issue with these kinds or projects is where to get the parts.

---

Paul Cohen

Beaverton, OR

A 1982 500 Shopsmith brand upgraded to a Mark 7 PowerPro, Jointer, Bandsaw (with Kreg fence), Strip Sander, Ring Master and lots of accessories all purchased new

12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw, 1200 CFM DC

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#15554 by edmo51 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:47 pm

Idh
Where did you purchase the bearings?

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#15560 by ldh » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:03 pm

edmo51 wrote:Idh
Where did you purchase the bearings?


edmo51,
The bearings 608-2RS (8x22x7) are from BEARING BARGAINS on ebay. The hardware for fitting the bearings to the SS is from McMaster-Carr. I am working on a set of CAD drawings to cover the assembly of each bearing set-up. I will post the assembly drawing, part # and source soon.
LDH

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#15570 by paulmcohen » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:41 am

ldh wrote:edmo51,
The bearings 608-2RS (8x22x7) are from BEARING BARGAINS on ebay. The hardware for fitting the bearings to the SS is from McMaster-Carr. I am working on a set of CAD drawings to cover the assembly of each bearing set-up. I will post the assembly drawing, part # and source soon.
LDH


It looks like just a screw through the two new bearings replacing the one bearing that is currently standard. What are we missing?

---

Paul Cohen

Beaverton, OR

A 1982 500 Shopsmith brand upgraded to a Mark 7 PowerPro, Jointer, Bandsaw (with Kreg fence), Strip Sander, Ring Master and lots of accessories all purchased new

12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw, 1200 CFM DC

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