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#2524 by charlese » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:17 pm

Dusty - What is it you aren't doing?

Anyway wanted to say you don't have to open up the dusty parts of the machine (no pun intended) to inspect the fan blades. If there is a broken or chipped fan blade the machine will vibrate. You can inspect the blades by removing the tin-like SS emblem from the intake. Then remove the intake manifold. (4 phillips screws). Then with the machine un-plugged reach your hand in the hole and feel the fan blades with your fingers.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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SS Dust Collector

#2529 by dusty » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:25 pm

My dust collector is not be working as well as it sounds like several of those referenced on the forum. I suspect that I either have a bad fan blade or a restricted air flow path. I seem to collect a lot more dust on and around the shopsmith no matter what I am doing ie sawing, sanding, whatever.

I have a section of new hose so I can eliminate that in a hurry. The dust collector doesn't vibrate abnormally but it sure seems to make a lot more noise than I remember. (Recall, I had an extended time where I wasn't in the shop at all. My memory could well be failing me.)

I recently took the hood off and emptied it, put on a clean bag and vacuumed out the dust collector itself but I didn't check up inside.
_______________________________
Making Sawdust Safely and Profusely

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#2531 by charlese » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:45 pm

Since you have a clean hood - try this - straighten out your hoses so you can see through them. You may need to clean out something that is stuck. More noise, without vibration means to me - there is a restriction somewhere. Could be in the hood, could be in the hoses, sould be (unlikely) in the inside chute portion of the fan housing.

My DC seems that it is louder when it is getting full and the hood is well caked and ugly inside. Hope you solve your extra noise problem soon!

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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seperators

#2539 by a1gutterman » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:16 am

Ed and others;
Grizzly offers the same items for a whole .04 less:rolleyes: . Oh, and it looks like they are made in the USA. http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2007/Main/171

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Tim

Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.

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#2553 by charlese » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:54 pm

Got a tip to end holes in the lower part of the bag - Used some of that foamy filler called "Great Stuff" and covered the bolts that protude into the area of the bag. Just squirt a small amount if you've never used the stuff before - as the "GS" expands 2X. Looks a little ugly, but you can trim it off with a knife to make the "Great Stuff" foam covers a little less ugly. Anyway they don't show when the bag is on. Havent had a hole in a bag since applying the stuff.

In one of the posts I noticed that an instructor in one of the SS classes recommended leaving any un-used intakes open. - - The following is from the PTWFE - Fourth Edition - page 310: "Push plug caps onto the inlet plugs. Then place an inlet plug assembly in any inlet not being used. These plugs help to muffle noise and slightly increase the suction power. If you desire, you can leave inlets open to help filter dust from the air"

That corresponds to my observations stated in a previous post. Also, it's gotta be said that the big pieces of dust - that immediately fall to the floor are not the ones that are dangerous to your health. It is the smaller stuff that floats around that'l get you. Especially the particles so small - you can't see them.

I'm going to dig out the article refered to earlier and put some of that info in this thread. It will probably be a few days.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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#2557 by Bruce » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:44 pm

Even with the DC, you should be wearing a dust mask. Use an ambient air cleaner to clean the really small stuff out of the air. That being said, I still don't have an ambient air cleaner myself. :( You can make one with a box fan and a furnace filter, but of course it's not going to work as well as a commercially made unit.

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#2571 by charlese » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:23 pm

Found the article sooner than anticipated. Whoops! My memory is sometimes not the best reference for reporting. I should look up the article prior to commentating and will try to do so in the future.

LOOKS LIKE YOUR FAN AND FURNACE FILTER IS A PRETTY GOOD SYSTEM!

The article I was thinking about compares Ambient Air ScrubbersSince that is somewhat related to the subject - here's the conclusions:

The best filter machine in this test was the JDS 750-ER (jdstools.com) The price of this unit is $300. If I can copy Part of the conclusion of the article - "On a shoestring budget? Our $20 box fan with a furnace filter taped over it tested as well in airflow and dust settling as systems priced 10 times more..."

The article on Air Scrubbers is in the Wood Magazine - Issue #172 - October 2006. In the article they tested 10 air scrubbers all celing mounted and electrically powered. The test was to put 8 pie pans in various locations around a 14' X 18' X 8.5' shop and cut 160 ft of MDF. The shop was then closed up and the scrubbers were run for 1 hour afterwards. Then the pie plates were weighed to measure the amount of dust settling into the plates.

Air flow ranged from 232 CFM for the box fan to 650 CFM for the Jet AFS-1000B

It was interesting to note that the higher the CFM of the scrubber - the more dust settled into the pans. The authors reasoned/concluded that high airflow (more than needed for the shop size) "carried heavier particles out to the perimiter of the shop before they slowed enough to fall."

The JDS unit didn't have this problem because it has a wider exhaust thereby decreasing exhaust air speed.

The article did remind us that it is the smaller particles - between .03 and 5.0 microns are the ones we want to stop and not inhale. Particles smaller than .03 microns behave like a gas and we can normally breathe them in and out with no problems. We need a microscope to see a 1.0 sized dust particle. That makes dust .03 to 1.0 pretty dangerous as we can't see them.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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#2573 by charlese » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:32 pm

Found this article sooner than anticipated. Woops! In my mind it seems that I have combined two articles on dust removal. One on removing dust from ambient air and the other - collecting dust from woodorking machines. Just haven't found the other yet.

LOOKS LIKE YOUR FAN AND FURNACE FILTER IS A PRETTY GOOD SYSTEM!

This article compares Ambient Air Scrubbers. Since that is related to the subject - here's the conclusions from the article:

The best filter machine in this test was the JDS 750-ER (jdstools.com) The price of this unit is $300. If I can copy Part of the conclusion of the article - "On a shoestring budget? Our $20 box fan with a furnace filter taped over it tested as well in airflow and dust settling as systems priced 10 times more..."

The article on Air Scrubbers is in the Wood Magazine - Issue #172 - October 2006. In the article they tested 10 air scrubbers all celing mounted and electrically powered. The test was to put 8 pie pans in various locations around a 14' X 18' X 8.5' shop and cut 160 ft of MDF. The shop was then closed up and the scrubbers were run for 1 hour afterwards. Then the pie plates were weighed to measure the amount of dust settling into the plates.

Air flow of the scrubbers ranged from 232 CFM for the box fan - to 650 CFM for the Jet AFS-1000B

It was interesting to note that the higher the CFM of the scrubber - the more dust settled into the pans. The authors reasoned/concluded that high airflow (more than needed for the shop size) through the exhaust "carried heavier particles out to the perimiter of the shop before they slowed enough to fall."

The JDS unit didn't have this problem because it has a wider exhaust thereby decreasing exhaust air speed.

In other words (mine); When considering air scrubbers, more CFM is not necessarily a good thing. Much depends on how fast the air comes from the exhaust (how much "wind" is created to blow unfiltered dust around). The JDS unit has the 3rd highest CFM at 636, but stilled scored best because of it's diffused exhaust. So a wide spread, slow exhaust is something to look for on an air scrubber.


The article did remind us that it is the smaller particles - between .03 and 5.0 microns are the ones we want to stop and not inhale. Particles smaller than .03 microns behave like a gas and we can normally breathe them in and out with no problems. We need a microscope to see a 1.0 sized dust particle. That makes dust .03 to 1.0 pretty dangerous as we can't see them.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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#2738 by 8iowa » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:42 pm

My wife gave me a DC 3300 for Christmas just after the product was introduced. That must be the better part of 20 years ago. She had an alternate motive in that her laundry area also shared garage space. This machine is still running like a charm. I started to replace the fan, thaikin that it must be worn out by now - but after partial dissembly I could not detect the slightest wear in the original fan. Will a Jet and some of the other units on the market perform as well over the years? If you need a replacement fan or parts for a Jet in 15 years will they still be available?

Most of the dust collectors at Woodcraft and other places are designed for permanent installations where the dust collector is at the termination of a hard piped metal or plastic ducted system. This could mean that the machine could be 15 or 20 feet away from the dust collector. the cfm loss in these kind of distances is significant, thus these dust collectors have 1 1/2 HP or larger motors. This gets us into another problem regarding adequate electrical capability. At a minimum, a 1 1/2 HP dust collector would have to be on it's own 20 amp circuit. This would be the way to go if you are setting up a 1000 to 2000 sq ft shop with a 60 to 100 amp sub panel.

The Shopsmith is competitive with some of the 1 HP dust collectors. Woodcraft has a Jet model 650 that is $300 and is portable. It advertises 650 cfm. However this is with a 4" opening. Once you put a 2 1/2 inch adapter and hose on it the cfm will drop drastically.

The Shopsmith, with it's 2 1/2 inch openings is rated at 330 cfm. I'm assuming that this is it's rating with one hose section. Various cmf requirements are listed in Taunton Press's "Small Woodworking Shops" section 4, page 107. They are as follows;
10 inch tablesaw ........350
6 or 8inch joiner..........300 - 450
12 inch planer.............350
Drill Press...................350
14 or 16 inch bandsaw..350
Radial Arm Saw............350 - 500
12 inch disc sander.......350
12-24 inch drum sander..300 -500
Oscillating spindle sander 350
Floor sweep..................350

So it would seem that the DC 3300 is adequate for most of our machines if we use just one length of 8' hose.

With the DC 3300 we do have slightly more suction if we close off the other two openings. Maximum cfm however will occur with all three ports open, no hose attached. This would probably even significantly exceed 330 cfm and would tax the motor to it's fullest load, perhaps even overload the motor.

Hope this helps.

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#2742 by charlese » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:02 pm

I certainly agree with your assessment of the durability of the 3300. Nice machine! However, noticed you are a little high on the CFM of the 3300 - reference page 310 of PTWFE. Anyway you ask a very good question relating to the longevity of other dust collectors and support systems..

I fully support your idea that the 3300 is compatible with higher HP collectors. During the time my SS was shut down (waiting for a fan) I used a 8 gallon "Shop Vac" with a motor rated at 2.5 HP. This "Shop Vac" had an opening that is 2.5" and readily accepted my SS portable hoses. I even used only 4' of hose with the Shop Vac. What a joke for use as a shop dust collector. After the 3300 was running again - had to clean the whole shop (and the Shop Vac).

Had another thought about those that may be having some trouble with their 3300. Are they using a flexible hose that has sharp bends as it lays on the floor? I have even had loops in my hose and noticed a difference after disconnecting and laying the hose straighter.

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Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.

Chuck in Lancaster, CA

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