Table Tubes vs Trunnion Pivot Point

skou · Post by **skou** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:29 am

dusty wrote:I am putting this in the Maintenance Section even though it has nothing to do with maintenance. It also does not have anything to do with wood working.

I had been working on some design changes for my outfeed table when I made the following observation:

The two table tubes (514344, Table Bar and Tube, #163) are offset approximately 5/8" from the pivot points of the Main Table Trunnions.

I am hoping that someone can explain to me why this might have been done.

Isn't just the Mark stuff. My 10 series table is offset, too. Looks to be only 1/4, or 3/8ths inch.

The 10 series is offset so the trunnion pivot is forward (headstock side) of the center of the table rods. (Yes, the 10 series stuff has rods instead of tubes, on a lot of the variations.) In fact, the rear trunnion pin's left edge lines up with the left side of the table rod. (Trunnion pin is about 3/8ths, and the table rod looks to be 3/4th inch)

I'm thinking, it is just to clear the blade. (Well, on mine.)

(SORRY! I didn't look at Dusty's original post date.! But, my info still might be valid.)

steve

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:11 am

This would be a trip that I would just as soon not redo except that it final came out right. I am not sure of the duration but it seems like I fought this problem for well over a year. It probably should have been a one day affair.

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=12209&highlight=outfeed

I use the outfeed table nearly every time I set up the Mark V. In fact, the OFT hangs on the rear extension tube for storage. Being able to have it there, even when I tilt the table or adjust table height saves a lot of time and eliminate some frustration. Posts #27 and #29 tell the entire story.

I am really surprised that Shopsmith has not incorporated this idea into their OFT. Most of the "engineering" is done. Properly manufactured, this would be one really cool accessory for the Mark V.

algale · Post by **algale** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:06 am

dusty wrote: I am really surprised that Shopsmith has not incorporated this idea into their OFT. Most of the "engineering" is done. Properly manufactured, this would be one really cool accessory for the Mark V.

I'm not. If Shopsmith did incorporate this into their OFT there would probably be an immediate flood of posts that it is "too expensive" and linking to all the raising/tilting OFTs that the members have built. A Shopsmith one would have to offer some kind of major improvement/innovation that couldn't be replicated at home.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:34 am

algale wrote:I'm not. If Shopsmith did incorporate this into their OFT there would probably be an immediate flood of posts that it is "too expensive" and linking to all the raising/tilting OFTs that the members have built. A Shopsmith one would have to offer some kind of major improvement/innovation that couldn't be replicated at home.

I am not surprised either.

Not sure I concur with that though.

After all Nick told us about attaching the 'tube' to the 'post'.

Until that, the location of the pivot on the OFT did not matter.

An improvement, but not total success until post #29! See Dusty's link above. Post #15 'may' help explain(or possibly further confuse!)

Realize moving the pivot on the OFT requires new tooling($$$$$$$$$$$).

BTW Reible was first to realize the pivot alignment was critical. Giving credit where due!

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:39 am

dusty wrote: I am really surprised that Shopsmith has not incorporated this idea into their OFT. Most of the "engineering" is done. Properly manufactured, this would be one really cool accessory for the Mark V.

I will bet it is one of two things. Product liability or it is not patent-able.

Without doubt some guy would try to rip Rail Road ties pushing the whole mess onto the out feed and have the SS tip over/collapse or other wise do damage.

Second not patent-able as you said most of the engineering is done by others it is hard to make and sell something everyone and his brother can duplicate and make themselves.

What I think SS might do if they were smart is manufacture a few of the odd parts and offer them for sale. Possibly as a upgrade to the existing out feed table which at SS direction "would always retain the support to the floor." wink wink.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:46 am

Ed in Tampa wrote:I will bet it is one of two things. Product liability or it is not patent-able.

Without doubt some guy would try to rip Rail Road ties pushing the whole mess onto the out feed and have the SS tip over/collapse or other wise do damage.

Second not patent-able as you said most of the engineering is done by others it is hard to make and sell something everyone and his brother can duplicate and make themselves.

What I think SS might do if they were smart is manufacture a few of the odd parts and offer them for sale. Possibly as a upgrade to the existing out feed table which at SS direction "would always retain the support to the floor." wink wink.

I do not think that support leg would support a railroad tie anyway!:D

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:20 pm

JPG40504 wrote: . . .

BTW Reible was first to realize the pivot alignment was critical. Giving credit where due!

Just to clarify, Ed recognizing the pivot alignment need was gained AFTER much work by Dusty prior to that.(More credit where it is due!)

I believe Ed also did some work with an OFT on his own, but I am not positive of that.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:52 pm

There was a lot of work done, back then, on the OFT.

I don't know why but this concept never got into prtoduction and that is a real shame.

This link reveals Shopsmith's first disclosure of an OFT.

I think everyone should have one of these (outfeed tables) on their table saw. There is enough information here on the forum to build one. If interested, just search for 'outfeed' and read.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:32 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:I will bet it is one of two things. Product liability or it is not patent-able.

Without doubt some guy would try to rip Rail Road ties pushing the whole mess onto ...

You stinker! I *hate* it when you guys read my mind!:mad: I was planning to use ties to border a new walkway around the house. Now I have to use 2x4s since you blew up my easy way of half-lapping the ties using Dusty's "Speed Tenon" find to do the deed. <sigh>

Cheers!
-Shaun-

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:44 pm

shaun wrote:You stinker! I *hate* it when you guys read my mind!:mad: I was planning to use ties to border a new walkway around the house. Now I have to use 2x4s since you blew up my easy way of half-lapping the ties using Dusty's "Speed Tenon" find to do the deed. <sigh>

Cheers!
-Shaun-

You can still do that. Just don't try to cut them on the Shopsmith.

I have never cut a raiulroad tie or anything else that had been soaked with creosote. Is that doable.

I also wonder about creosote up against anything that is expected to grow. Does creosote kill late in life. I know the railroad used to creosote the rail road beds to kill off vegetation.